Panthers' Offense: Some Core Concerns Surfacing Early

[SmokinwithWilly]

16 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

NFL ready doesnt mean NFL experienced. I get that we are frustrated but choking this kid to death after playing two of the top defenses in the league is just unbalanced. Especially with backup guards in the mix.  

But we're also watching 2 lesser "NFL ready" QBs making the throws and doing the things that BY was supposed to be doing with ease. Maybe that's BY. Maybe it's Reich. But it's damn sure concerning to say the least. 

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, Bear Hands said:

Took a minute to digest whatever we saw on offense yesterday (It didn't taste good and didn't digest well, a big ole' sh*t)

It's not any one player performance outweighing the others.  Not here to mindlessly bash Bryce. 

I will say, it is absolutely frustrating to see him out there like he's a 3rd-4th round pick thrown in too soon.  That's not entirely on him...maybe lining up behind a guard accidentally.  Jokes out of the way, what is clear as day after 2 weeks, WR regardless, QB play regardless, this is regarding how this entire offense's architecture looks.    

We have:

Frank Reich - SB winning OC, former QB, NFL lifer

Jim Caldwell - SB winning HC, SB winning position coach, NFL lifer

Thomas Brown - Former RB, SB winning AHC/position coach, Highly hyped McVay protege

James Campen - SB winning OL coach, one of the higher regarded in the league

and then Josh McCown, former QB, testing the coaching waters.

The #1 Overall draft pick in 2023

And We have:

We have 266 passing yards after 2 games.  

--

I think how upset people about our performance so far is totally valid.  The best teams have coaches who can best cater to the talent they have.  The reactiveness and craziness here is not all justified, but it's pretty obvious why it's happening and another salty Darrin Gant bashes the fanbase article lies ahead.

It is downright inexcusable that they cannot position the players we have to create substantial yardage, sustain drives and create points right now.  We have been stifled to the effect of the 2010 lame duck season.  You look around the league and there is simply no one as limited on offense as we are right now. Not one.  Even Josh Dobbs is moving AZ down the field.  

So, my general glance, not an in depth study:

The outside zone schemes of the Shanahan and McVay disciples had defensive responses in recent years, and the NFL is already in arguably phase 3 of the modern scheme wars--that we're apparently complacent being on the sidelines from, not participating in. There's been an ongoing chess match in this regard with many of the top teams and their schemes and we can't even get in the building to try to keep up with it.  

Modern spread, wide-zone, deception, misdirection -- is not in the building

Reich framed his approach as one learning from past mistakes, being collaborative, but this looks like what he's always brought.  What it looks like (so far) is a fixed system that he's used before.  There's just no creativity I'm seeing right now, no outside runs, bunch formations, no defensive stretching stuff that keeps them guessing, condensed sets.  If there is, it's in such minor doses, that it's irrelevant.  

So, you get this type of group together, the #1 overall draft pick who can do this stuff (and showed in college), I'm sorry but you 100%, HAVE to look more competent. 

There's no excuse for looking this bad on offense.  I can buy certain aspects, such as, Bryce adjusting, having nice moments here and there and the OL having some decent stretches for backup guards playing.  But this is putrid.

It is EARLY, but this is a huge early indictment on the coaching staff.  They need to make serious adjustments and an early come to jesus about what they've implemented IF this is what they intended to deploy.  Show us why people kept saying this was some rockstar group of cats we put together.  

It's going to be a tough go against a SEA defense that's finding their identity with some quality DBs.   

Looking forward to some of the deep divers to dig into what we're seeing because, it isn't pretty by any stretch of the imagination.  

 

Overall:

Hoping for some more enjoyable football ahead.  I will say, Evero has our defense looking absolutely awesome.  Evero vs. Waldren will be fun.  

Hope Shaq heals as well as possible.  No one on the Offensive staff or players seem like sh*theads, but it looks like sh*t that's for sure. Cheers.

This ^^^^

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, TheCasillas said:

you asked me for an example and I gave you one. The rest I will review the All-22

fair enough, but as I rewatched it just now he only had 2 good/decent downfield throws, the one at 58 and then the one at 334 and that one was a pretty standard nfl throw and it still takes a bit to get there.  everything else was a wtf or in the flat

[TheCasillas]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just saying, if you're going to make accusations don't accuse someone of doing what you literally did just moments before. Just make your arguments. But don't call Bryce Young "Sam Darnold bad" a week ago then juno on your pedestal and start trying to lecture other posters about having critiques.

You're just giving some real "fine for me but not for thee" vibes.

what did I do moments before?  If you are talking about me making fun of your comment stating that the panthers staged the Bryce hype.. Then my intentions were not clear that I was laughing at your statement not making fun of you. 

 

He made a Sam Darnold like decision.... i called that out. I am giving the kid balanced critique and you are calling it flip flopping. Player evaluations are never just black and white... there will always be gray.... bc it is a team sport the variables are almost infinite. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by TheCasillas

[Martin]

I didn’t expect miracles, but the offense has been brutal so far, there is no way around that. It is hard to watch at this point. Hopefully we’ll work through it, getting Corbett back will make a world of difference in week 5. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

I don't get the sense that Bryce is struggling with learning the offense. My concern is that the problem might be the offense Reich is trying to run.

I don't know what it is. It's just altogether really unimpressive and I hope they can fix it somehow.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

what did I do moments before?  If you are talking about me making fun of your comment stating that the panthers staged the Bryce hype.. Then my intentions were not clear that I was laughing at your statement not making fun of you. 

 

He made a Sam Darnold like decision.... i called that out. I am giving the kid balanced critique and you are calling it flip flopping. Player evaluations are never just black and white... there will always be gray.... bc it is a team sport the variables are almost infinite. 

I quoted the post for you.

Just carry on. It's whatever.

[CarolinaRideorDie]

34 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Speaking of philosophy... Reich's offense has always been about the run setting up the pass ... and with the current run game being sub par (personally i think this is due to oline, not the backs) ... I don't see a world this offense can succeed until we figure that part out.

I agree and have also posted this statement in multiple posts. Frank's system is based on Philly's system, establish run to set up the pass. Go to ESPN stats and look up team stats, philly is #2 in rush yds per game and #29 in passing!!! Why are they 2-0 and us 0-2? You don't need a great passing game to succeed but you do need to have the big splash passing plays when it counts! We sorely lack that due to Frank's lack of creativity. And despite Frank's play calling, it ultimately comes down to Bryce just taking a shot downfield for the sake of it, he needs to stop being conservative. 

During both games against Atl and Saints, our defense has given us every opportunity to win, but it was just one big passing play that turned the game in their favor. Atl = Kyle Pitts catch. Saints = Olave catch. WE JUST NEED ONE BIG SPLASH PLAY!! 

[TheCasillas]

2 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

But we're also watching 2 lesser "NFL ready" QBs making the throws and doing the things that BY was supposed to be doing with ease. Maybe that's BY. Maybe it's Reich. But it's damn sure concerning to say the least. 

I think the biggest challenge to evaluate right now is the talent and planning across them. We have played against to teams that have had the same staff for multiple years and very talented defenses (currently top 5).

While Richardson and Stroud have only played one team in that category. It's just too hard to read right now, and I am not being bias. This stuff I don't play favorites bc there really is no reason to.  What do I win by saying AR/Stroud/Bryce is worse bc x,y,z 

[TheCasillas]

5 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I agree and have also posted this statement in multiple posts. Frank's system is based on Philly's system, establish run to set up the pass. Go to ESPN stats and look up team stats, philly is #2 in rush yds per game and #29 in passing!!! Why are they 2-0 and us 0-2? You don't need a great passing game to succeed but you do need to have the big splash passing plays when it counts! We sorely lack that due to Frank's lack of creativity. And despite Frank's play calling, it ultimately comes down to Bryce just taking a shot downfield for the sake of it, he needs to stop being conservative. 

During both games against Atl and Saints, our defense has given us every opportunity to win, but it was just one big passing play that turned the game in their favor. Atl = Kyle Pitts catch. Saints = Olave catch. WE JUST NEED ONE BIG SPLASH PLAY!! 

it really does come down to that. It's a completely different feeling right now if we have some big time plays. Still we didnt see any... so that hurts. 

[CarolinaRideorDie]

5 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

 We have played against to teams that have had the same staff for multiple years and very talented defenses (currently top 5).
 

It's hard to say if our offense sucks or because we played against two top 4 defenses in the league. Most likely a mixture of both. Next weeks game against Seattle is going to be very telling, their defense is currently #31 in yds per game. If our offense fails to put up yds or points against them, then i'll say that our offense playcalling/system is trash. 

[TheCasillas]

Just now, CarolinaRideorDie said:

It's hard to say if our offense sucks or because we played against two top 4 defenses in the league. Most likely a mixture of both. Next weeks game against Seattle is going to be very telling, their defense is currently #31 in yds per game. If our offense fails to put up yds or points against them, then i'll say that our offense playcalling/system is trash. 

yeah, i wouldnt say they were top defenses if they looked bad against their other opponents but they were just as consistent.

[Eazy-E]

12 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

I don't get the sense that Bryce is struggling with learning the offense. My concern is that the problem might be the offense Reich is trying to run.

By all accounts Bryce has had no problem learning the offense. Based on what we are seeing on the field, it looks like he is physically unable to execute it…. and our opponents are recognizing that.

[Navy_football]

15 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

that's not a screen, it is a smoke route. The goal of that route is typically one of two things. 

1. option for the QB if the box is stacked and leaving you man against a CB on an isladn
2. Bringing a Cover2 corner down to open a mid out route while another reciever takes the safety deep

 

You typically see these route in flood concepts to break down a zone defense. Until we can see the zoomed out view of that play we have no idea if the defense is sitting on that route, running man, or Bryce just missed it.

Sorry I wasn't clear. That's what I'm asking. Wanted to know what happened when the All22 is available.