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Tua and Bryce..

Jmac

By Jmac,
in Carolina Panthers

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cmichd08 Community Regular

cmichd08

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On 9/25/2023 at 10:22 AM, LinvilleGorge said:

They have the most talented offense in the NFL. We traded our only legit WR and a ton of draft capital to go get our franchise QB. When you make a move like that it's because you think you're getting a guy that you don't have to surround with elite talent because your ability to do so is going to be severely limited. We're going to have to be wizards in FA and the mid-late rounds to make this experiment work. 

Ultimately, yeah I think the Tua comparison is apt but our ability to recreate what the Dolphins have is going to be a real uphill battle.

They picked the wrong QB then. Tepper wanted Young and there was not going to be any questions asked. Maybe after 2 years on the bench watching he might be a damn good QB, but Young is not ready for Prime Time at this stage in his career. We watch Love from Green Bay sit on the bench for 2 years and learn the position. Maybe in two years we will have a line that can block and open holes for the running backs.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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53 minutes ago, cmichd08 said:

They picked the wrong QB then. Tepper wanted Young and there was not going to be any questions asked. Maybe after 2 years on the bench watching he might be a damn good QB, but Young is not ready for Prime Time at this stage in his career. We watch Love from Green Bay sit on the bench for 2 years and learn the position. Maybe in two years we will have a line that can block and open holes for the running backs.

It's the #1 pick. They play and not sit or there is a problem. Young's issues will be solved on the field and not a clipboard. He was never a project and his biggest hurdle is game speed and getting rid of the ball faster, that is in game stuff. He was already super smart and they opened up the playbook for him in preseason practice. The 'injury' is why he didn't play so sitting him would be a giant red flag, I think they would IR him over that. 

Sitting isn't the answer anyway you look at it. Running the ball a hell of a lot more sure is but I am not sure we will see that soon. 

Edited by Waldo
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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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7 minutes ago, cmichd08 said:

Sitting didn't seem to hurt Love in Green Bay did it. He even had his troubles too, but he did lead Green Bay back from a 17 point deficit did he not. Young is not ready. Maybe later.

Love went 26 and was a project. They spent 2 1st and a starting WR in his prime to pick Young who's giant positive was he was pro-ready. Closes thing to Young sitting would be Lance at 3 who sat behind Jimmy G who had been taking them to the playoffs and he was a giant project coming from a covid riddled year. I don't know about any other QBs picked 1st sitting recently except for extremally poor performances. I'm going to look that up.

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Jay Roosevelt Veteran

Jay Roosevelt

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On 9/25/2023 at 10:22 AM, LinvilleGorge said:

They have the most talented offense in the NFL. We traded our only legit WR and a ton of draft capital to go get our franchise QB. When you make a move like that it's because you think you're getting a guy that you don't have to surround with elite talent because your ability to do so is going to be severely limited. We're going to have to be wizards in FA and the mid-late rounds to make this experiment work. 

This is nonsense. I don't think people here realize just how little we actually gave up to get the #1 pick compared to what it could have cost. Just look at what the 49ers gave up to get the #3 pick that they took Trey Lance with. Or what the Browns gave up for Deshaun Watson.

Compared to that we gave up peanuts. We essentially have a full slate of draft picks next year minus our 1st rounder; teams trade 1st round picks all the time and aren't severely limited for years to come because of it.

Yes, we have to do well in free agency and the draft for this to work out; welcome to professional football. That would be true regardless.

One above average WR and one 1st round pick does not equate to mortgaging the franchise.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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3 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

This is nonsense. I don't think people here realize just how little we actually gave up to get the #1 pick compared to what it could have cost. Just look at what the 49ers gave up to get the #3 pick that they took Trey Lance with. Or what the Browns gave up for Deshaun Watson.

Compared to that we gave up peanuts. We essentially have a full slate of draft picks next year minus our 1st rounder; teams trade 1st round picks all the time and aren't severely limited for years to come because of it.

Yes, we have to do well in free agency and the draft for this to work out; welcome to professional football. That would be true regardless.

One above average WR and one 1st round pick does not equate to mortgaging the franchise.

Two 1sts, two 2nds, and a proven starting WR is "peanuts"?

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cmichd08 Community Regular

cmichd08

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44 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Love went 26 and was a project. They spent 2 1st and a starting WR in his prime to pick Young who's giant positive was he was pro-ready. Closes thing to Young sitting would be Lance at 3 who sat behind Jimmy G who had been taking them to the playoffs and he was a giant project coming from a covid riddled year. I don't know about any other QBs picked 1st sitting recently except for extremally poor performances. I'm going to look that up.

Sorry Young is not ready to play either. I don't care what they spent for him. It was too much. We should have taken CJ then. He has 2 wins. Young is zero and two. Just because we spent doesn't mean he has to start. That is the propaganda the NFL sells you. Young is not ready, or his performance would have been better in the two games he has played.

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Jay Roosevelt Veteran

Jay Roosevelt

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42 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Two 1sts, two 2nds, and a proven starting WR is "peanuts"?

The 49ers gave up three 1sts + a 3rd to move up to #3 overall to take Trey Lance. The Browns gave up three 1sts + a 3rd + two 4ths for Deshaun Watson, who was being accused of rape at the time.

So yeah, compared to those deals I'd say we gave up considerably less.

The fact is any deal like this is going to depend entirely on how the QB drafted turns out. If Bryce ends up being as good as his potential then nobody will care what we gave up to get him; if he busts we'll be talking about it for years. But that doesn't change the fact that not having a 1st round pick next year (or D.J. Moore) means we're somehow crippled in our ability to improve the team around Bryce Young.

BTW, those picks the 49ers gave up was for a guy they just traded away for a 4th rounder to Dallas. Last time I checked the 49ers are doing just fine despite giving up those picks AND missing on the QB they drafted.

The trade was a risk, not a death sentence.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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16 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

The 49ers gave up three 1sts + a 3rd to move up to #3 overall to take Trey Lance. The Browns gave up three 1sts + a 3rd + two 4ths for Deshaun Watson, who was being accused of rape at the time.

So yeah, compared to those deals I'd say we gave up considerably less.

The fact is any deal like this is going to depend entirely on how the QB drafted turns out. If Bryce ends up being as good as his potential then nobody will care what we gave up to get him; if he busts we'll be talking about it for years. But that doesn't change the fact that not having a 1st round pick next year (or D.J. Moore) means we're somehow crippled in our ability to improve the team around Bryce Young.

BTW, those picks the 49ers gave up was for a guy they just traded away for a 4th rounder to Dallas. Last time I checked the 49ers are doing just fine despite giving up those picks AND missing on the QB they drafted.

The trade was a risk, not a death sentence.

We didn't have the 49ers roster either. DJ is the equivalent of a 1st. Two 2nds are about the equivalent of a 1st. We gave up about four 1st rounders worth of value. Definitely not peanuts and yeah, if Bryce doesn't work out we're gonna feel it for awhile. 

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

The 49ers gave up three 1sts + a 3rd to move up to #3 overall to take Trey Lance. The Browns gave up three 1sts + a 3rd + two 4ths for Deshaun Watson, who was being accused of rape at the time.

So yeah, compared to those deals I'd say we gave up considerably less.

The fact is any deal like this is going to depend entirely on how the QB drafted turns out. If Bryce ends up being as good as his potential then nobody will care what we gave up to get him; if he busts we'll be talking about it for years. But that doesn't change the fact that not having a 1st round pick next year (or D.J. Moore) means we're somehow crippled in our ability to improve the team around Bryce Young.

BTW, those picks the 49ers gave up was for a guy they just traded away for a 4th rounder to Dallas. Last time I checked the 49ers are doing just fine despite giving up those picks AND missing on the QB they drafted.

The trade was a risk, not a death sentence.

The 9ers got fuging lucky and there's no denying it. Mr. Irrelevant just happened to end up being the best QB on their team. If they didn't have Purdy, they'd be fugged.

Edited by SmokinwithWilly
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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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1 hour ago, cmichd08 said:

Sorry Young is not ready to play either. I don't care what they spent for him. It was too much. We should have taken CJ then. He has 2 wins. Young is zero and two. Just because we spent doesn't mean he has to start. That is the propaganda the NFL sells you. Young is not ready, or his performance would have been better in the two games he has played.

It's a bigger problem to miss on Young then not win games this year. He may not be ready but he better get ready or hide on IR. If he needs to sit then they shouldn't have picked him and that would become a giant problem for them way sooner than next year. None of this has anything to do with how I feel about him or his play. 

He is also going to be publicly scrutinized as the # 1 pick so sitting doesn't make anything quieter, it actually increases the angst and media volume moving forward. Love didn't have that behind Rodgers. Mahhomes didn't have that behind Smith. And Lance who was a giant failure didn't get much care because they were winning and he was behind Jimmy G and Purdy. Allen only started 11 games but he was also a known project and leap for them. You want to put Young behind Dalton and call it justified? It's like brining your own nails to a crucifixion. 

 

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    • d-dave
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By d-dave · Posted

      The problem that Bryce faces is his lack of prototypical tools.  He's not the tall, strong armed mobile QB that tends to get drafted first overall.  His game is not played in underwear on a practice field.  His best asset are his intangibles.  They aren't sexy like a cannon arm or a fast 40 yard dash. OK, so we took the lesser athlete.  Bryce put up a pretty bad season with a bad team around him.  The coaching staff, for all it's platitudes, sucked.  They made sure Bryce could run a huddle, but didn't help him get better as a player.  Bad choice. Compare that to what other teams did to their Rookies:  they put them in position to succeed with better personnel and better play calling.  Sure, there are physical differences which are going to affect the outcomes, but you can't change it. Am I trying to ride to the defense of Bryce?  Only a little.  He's my favorite team's QB, and I believe in him.  Now, he's got this year to show that he's "the No. 1 for a reason" (Thanks CJ Stroud).  Will he, won't he?  I don't know at all.  That's on the D&D crew to put Bryce is position to play well.  Running the ball is going to make things a lot easier for Bryce.  Does that discount his success if he plays well?  For some of y'all it will.  Some of y'all just don't like Bryce, like he stole you DoorDash or something. Regardless, let's see what happens in 2024.  If Bryce stinks it up, then we're going back to the QB well again.  
    • rayzor
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By rayzor · Posted

      we may think we know, but we don't know. we won't know what effect upgrades on the OL, coaching staff, and WR room will have. we don't know what scheme canales is going to put together. we don't know a lot of things.  that's why we play the games...to see what shakes out. plenty of reasons to think Bryce is limited this year...again. Plenty of reasons to see an improvement in his play. 
    • MHS831
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By MHS831 · Posted

      He did not elevate the players around him, but they de-elevated their QB.  A QB like Bryce needs a system, a strong OL, a Running game, and WRs that can get open.  Call him a manager at best, but so is a point guard.  That is all we should need.  He is smart enough to grow into a very effective player.  I once saw a Coach talking about the OL--i forget who it was Schottenheimer comes to mind--and he said, you can succeed if you have one weak link on the OL.  If you get 2 weak links, success comes 10x harder.  If you get three weak links, your season is over.  Your QB is injured, and you are unemployed (paraphrasing).  I would say that we had 4 weak links (Icky does not get a pass) and a RB who was not good at pass blocking. I am not saying the Bryce is the answer at QB--but I am saying we don't know yet. I know QBs (college) and when the OL sucks, they collapse mentally over time.  That is what we saw--a QB who had never played without the advantage.
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