Why isn't Reich calling plays for Hurst?

[top dawg]

The first week, it looked like Hurst would be a thing. Now? Who the hell knows? A pass-catching TE is a rookie QB's best friend. Everyone seems to know that. Hurst needs to be purposely incorporated into the flow of the offense. Even Mike Shula knew how to effectively use a tight end as an offensive weapon.

Edited September 26, 2023 by top dawg

[WarHeel]

Look across the league and the most successful teams have a pass catching TE at their disposal. Our offense has probably missed Greg Olsen more than anyone the last few years. Baffles me our front office hasn’t prioritized the position. 

[tukafan21]

Because he's... Hayden Hurst?!?!

Solid TE, but he's not a player that you are specifically calling plays to get the ball for.  Particularly not when we also have Thielen who plays a similar role of the short to intermediate routes, check downs, over the middle stuff, but is better at it than Hurst.

[Waldo]

Why is he calling plays at all?

It's been a huge issue for him in the past and his OC needs to take those reins and soon. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Waldo

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Because he's... Hayden Hurst?!?!

Solid TE, but he's not a player that you are specifically calling plays to get the ball for.  Particularly not when we also have Thielen who plays a similar role of the short to intermediate routes, check downs, over the middle stuff, but is better at it than Hurst.

He could absolutely be used in short yardage stuff throughout a game. And easy short yardage stuff from multiple targets where the ball gets out fast would sure put the rookie in a better spot. Everyone knew Brady was going to get rid of it quick and short and they still had trouble stopping him. It's not sexy but it works just fine.

[therealmjl]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Why is he calling plays at all?

This

[Ricky Spanish]

I misread the thread title and thought you were shitposting about the eagles. 

I forgot Hurst was on the roster.

Which I guess validates your point more.

[tukafan21]

17 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He could absolutely be used in short yardage stuff throughout a game. And easy short yardage stuff from multiple targets where the ball gets out fast would sure put the rookie in a better spot. Everyone knew Brady was going to get rid of it quick and short and they still had trouble stopping him. It's not sexy but it works just fine.

My point isn't that we shouldn't be running those plays, but if we're going to run them, they're better off being ran with Thielen as the first read instead of Hurst. 

Hurts is a solid player, but he's not a difference maker that you're regularly drawing up plays for, not when you have a better version of what he does best in Thielen already on the squad.

Not saying you don't play Hurst, it's just why more plays aren't called for him.

[UNCrules2187]

He's averaging ~4 targets a game which is in line with his averages in 2 of the past 3 years (~5 targets/game with Cincy in 2022, ~5.5 targets/game with ATL in 2020; he had ~2.3 targets/game in 2021 with ATL). He's a solid but unspectacular vet. He should have more than the 1 catch on 3 targets that he had this past Sunday, but there's nothing really out of the ordinary here tbh. He's just not a difference maker.  

Edited September 26, 2023 by UNCrules2187

[Waldo]

27 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

My point isn't that we shouldn't be running those plays, but if we're going to run them, they're better off being ran with Thielen as the first read instead of Hurst. 

Hurts is a solid player, but he's not a difference maker that you're regularly drawing up plays for, not when you have a better version of what he does best in Thielen already on the squad.

Not saying you don't play Hurst, it's just why more plays aren't called for him.

Use both and they should be using those plays just like they should be running more. It's such low hanging fruit left of the tree. Send them is different directions and let the QB get rid of it. Build them up, build up the pass protection and keep the D honest. 

Hurts' best days are behind him but even Walls could make those plays when he was way over hill. 

I don't see it as drawing up plays for Hurts as much as just getting him involved, which in the middle is the same thing. Short yardage and sprinkle him throughout a drive for an easy 4 to 6 yards. Do Thielen on the other side and see who gets open or has a bad matchup. Any player that can produce should get sprinkled into the playcalling and that includes the RBs. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Waldo

[tukafan21]

32 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Use both and they should be using those plays just like they should be running more. It's such low hanging fruit left of the tree. Send them is different directions and let the QB get rid of it. Build them up, build up the pass protection and keep the D honest. 

Hurts' best days are behind him but even Walls could make those plays when he was way over hill. 

I don't see it as drawing up plays for Hurts as much as just getting him involved, which in the middle is the same thing. Short yardage and sprinkle him throughout a drive for an easy 4 to 6 yards. Do Thielen on the other side and see who gets open or has a bad matchup. Any player that can produce should get sprinkled into the playcalling and that includes the RBs. 

I have no issue to him being involved, but I was responding to the original post asking why plays aren't called FOR him, and having Thielen who does similar things but better is the reason why.

[Waldo]

Just now, tukafan21 said:

I have no issue to him being involved, but I was responding to the original post asking why plays aren't called FOR him, and having Thielen who does similar things but better is the reason why.

He isn't involved just like Hibbard isn't involved. Getting him involved would be calling plays for him. It's all semantics which is why I said it's the same thing. 

I thought that is why most plays have multiple reads. How many are they calling with just one read?

[lightsout]

Given that he and Thielen are used similarly, you'd think we would utilize some misdirection and force teams to guess which safety valve they need to cover. Chark on the deep route, Mingo backside post, Thielen and Hurst running intermediate and short. Would force teams to actually respect us rather than running the same combination of crossers with an out/flat we've called 90% of the time. Or the poorly executed four verts where we're just keying the crosser.

[tukafan21]

11 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He isn't involved just like Hibbard isn't involved. Getting him involved would be calling plays for him. It's all semantics which is why I said it's the same thing. 

I thought that is why most plays have multiple reads. How many are they calling with just one read?

Those aren't even close to the same thing, a RB who is mainly used as a runner is only involved when they directly call runs for him, while a TE can be on the field for lots of snaps, have lots of routes run, but not be involved because the QB decides to keep throwing to other players.

Yes, every play of course has multiple reads, but in this offense, unless they directly call a play that makes him the first read, the most he's ever going to be is the 3rd read on any given play as Thielen and Chark will almost always be the first 2 (assuming progression patterns on a certain call don't dictate something else of course).

I don't think it's semantics when talking about getting an at best 3rd read (and honestly maybe 4th or 5th on a given play behind Mingo/TMJ/Sanders) involved in the offense as you say.  The coaches can get him involved by calling specific plays for him while the QB can get him involved by checking down to him more often, two very different things and not at all semantics with how they're talked about.

Again, the OP was talking about purposefully getting him involved more and throwing to him, which I again say doesn't make much sense unless matchups dictate it because Thielen will always be a better option on similar routes/needs.  I have no issue with the QB's using him more, but I wouldn't suggest the coaches running specific plays for him at the expense of plays run for Thielen who is pretty clearly our best pass catcher in my eyes.