Why Trading Burns is the Only Path to Getting a #1 WR in 2024

[Varking]

12 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Almost missed this one…Mike Evans?  It is becoming incredibly clear that you are stuck on measurables.  Wow…glad I see it now.  

Mike Evans has been one of the most consistent players forever.  Tee Higgins is NOT Mike Evans….not even remotely close 

They aren’t the same type or breed or anything else

What are you going on about? I said just that about Mike Evans for like three straight comments. He pointed out that Evans isn’t a burner and I said he still had good wheels. He said he preferred Higgins because he’s more twitchy fast and younger and I said he was the same type of player as Evans. Meaning he is a good speed but not great and he wins the 50/50 balls. 
 

There’s zero need for the dramatics. 

[Shocker]

Just now, tukafan21 said:

Because Bryce isn't ready (and may never be able to) lead a SB contention team without elite weapons.

Maybe he could get there someday, but it's clear the lack of an elite outside WR is limiting his development right now.  It's not even just for him to pass to, but because it changes how defenses can run their coverages.

Right now they don't need to worry about doubling anyone or keeping safeties over the top, they can get extra pass rushers because of it, all while his WRs outside of Thielen struggle to get open for him to have clean throwing windows.

I also think teams winning SB's with just a bunch of good WRs and no great ones, is going to mostly be a thing of the past.  Today's NFL is changing and it's a passing league lead by truly elite WR talent.  Sure, KC last year didn't have one, but they have Kelce and the only QB in the league who could potentially challenge Brady for GOAT status someday.

But look at the other SB teams in recent years...

KC played against the Eagles (Brown, Smith), Rams (Kupp) vs Bengals (Chase, Higgins), Bucs (Evans, Godwin, AB) vs KC (Tyreek, Kelce), KC (Tyreek, Kelce) vs 49ers (Deebo, Kittle).

 

 

 

I hear you…but man…patience is something these days that can win a Super Bowl.  No one has it.  It is a serious commodity.  Just need that and making sound moves for the future and you will dominate.  Give this staff time with a competent GM making moves and we will be fine.  No more win now moves.

[Shocker]

4 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

Burns needs a running mate on the D line. Sucks everyone we’ve drafted for that role has yet to work out. Also Justin Houston has been a bust of a signing. Don’t even get me started at the decision to trade up for DJ Johnson.

 

DJ might…just saying might have something.  Let’s wait and see with him.  He can hold the edge.  

[tukafan21]

20 minutes ago, t96 said:

Evans is not a “possession WR” lol. He’s a dominant Bonaire number 1 who can do it all and is one of the best deep threats in the league. Any QB in the league would benefit from having him.

Possession was the wrong term to use, you're right.

By possession, I more meant that he's just not the player you use to get the ball in their hands and let them make something happen.  His big yardage plays are because he's making a downfield catch because of his size and great hands.

I'm talking about needing the Diggs, Lamb, Chase, Jefferson, etc, type of player who you can run on a lot of short quick hitters to let them make something happen, in addition to being able to be a downfield threat like Evans.  Don't get me wrong, he's one of the best to play and he's still great, but I just don't think he's the type of player we need to get for Bryce right now.

And I know we can't just get a player of their caliber, will be someone a step down, but they can be more of that style to their game and it will be what is best for Bryce in addition to Thielen and Mingo.

An interesting one could be Aiyuk actually, he only has 1 year left on his deal after this season and there is no way they're going to be able to afford to extending with all their other big contracts, he'll be a cap casualty.

I'd love to try and get him in a trade this offseason

[Shocker]

8 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Possession was the wrong term to use, you're right.

By possession, I more meant that he's just not the player you use to get the ball in their hands and let them make something happen.  His big yardage plays are because he's making a downfield catch because of his size and great hands.

I'm talking about needing the Diggs, Lamb, Chase, Jefferson, etc, type of player who you can run on a lot of short quick hitters to let them make something happen, in addition to being able to be a downfield threat like Evans.  Don't get me wrong, he's one of the best to play and he's still great, but I just don't think he's the type of player we need to get for Bryce right now.

And I know we can't just get a player of their caliber, will be someone a step down, but they can be more of that style to their game and it will be what is best for Bryce in addition to Thielen and Mingo.

An interesting one could be Aiyuk actually, he only has 1 year left on his deal after this season and there is no way they're going to be able to afford to extending with all their other big contracts, he'll be a cap casualty.

I'd love to try and get him in a trade this offseason

Feels like you are desperately reaching for a quick fix.  Jeudy and Jameson Willams have great talent but this league is brutal.  Neither guy wants to go over the middle.  
 

Williams is a player I wouldn’t touch.  Bust written all over him

Edited October 31, 2023 by Shocker

[tukafan21]

21 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Feels like you are desperately reaching for a quick fix.  Jeudy and Jameson Willams have great talent but this league is brutal.  Neither guy wants to go over the middle.  
 

Williams is a player I wouldn’t touch.  Bust written all over him

I am absolutely desperately looking for a quick fix at WR, at almost any cost other than trading our own future 1st round picks.  Like your other post said, sometimes you need patience, and I have always and will always be on board with that as a general rule for building a withstanding franchise.

But after what we spent to get Bryce and how he's looked so far, we can't be patient in getting him a #1 weapon for both his own development and for the future of this franchise.

I know I'm not the biggest Bryce fan on here, but even his staunches supporters have to admit that he still has a long way to go to prove he has elite potential, and even then, he does have size/strength concerns.

If we end up in a Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray situation, we have to take the parachute and draft the new QB.  So until we know one way or the other, we can't trade any future first round pick of our own right now, they have to be kept for potential QB replacement or even just an elite top 10 prospect on a rookie contract (maybe even a WR).

But we won't know about Bryce until we get him that #1 WR, not giving him one for his first two years in the NFL is a quick way to ruin a QB's career.  I am absolutely fine to overpay to get one of those type of guys, it's the most important thing for the future and growth of Bryce, and in turn, our franchise.

It's also why I'm so strongly against guys like Jeudy, as I don't think he's that guy and he's a locker room concern with his diva mentality, terribly wrong fit and I'd turn him down at a value and overpay for someone like Higgins, Jameson, or if guys like Aiyuk or Devonta Smith might become available in the offseason because teams can't afford another high priced WR to extend.

In regards to Jameson though, I think getting Bryce his top target from his Heisman season would help, especially with his speed, he can change coverages.  Then you add a guy like Curtis Samuel to do the short routes over the middle with speed too and we have a great top 4 with those two, Thielen and Mingo.

The TLDR version is Bryce's development should be the #1 priority of this franchise and getting him a #1 WR is the first step in doing that.

Edited October 31, 2023 by tukafan21

[t96]

28 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Possession was the wrong term to use, you're right.

By possession, I more meant that he's just not the player you use to get the ball in their hands and let them make something happen.  His big yardage plays are because he's making a downfield catch because of his size and great hands.

I'm talking about needing the Diggs, Lamb, Chase, Jefferson, etc, type of player who you can run on a lot of short quick hitters to let them make something happen, in addition to being able to be a downfield threat like Evans.  Don't get me wrong, he's one of the best to play and he's still great, but I just don't think he's the type of player we need to get for Bryce right now.

And I know we can't just get a player of their caliber, will be someone a step down, but they can be more of that style to their game and it will be what is best for Bryce in addition to Thielen and Mingo.

An interesting one could be Aiyuk actually, he only has 1 year left on his deal after this season and there is no way they're going to be able to afford to extending with all their other big contracts, he'll be a cap casualty.

I'd love to try and get him in a trade this offseason

Fair point but I’m not sure how this relates to Bryce’s development. I think it’s better for him to need to get the ball to players and make the plays rather than let an elite yac dude do all the work. Any offense would love to have that type of player, we just had one too and traded him away for Bryce. I think we just need guys who can get open so Bryce has the opportunity to make plays. Evans gets open consistently at all levels of the field. He’d be a huge add in FA if we could get him. Thielen is great out of the slot but we have nobody else. Mingo is showing some promise but obviously isn’t there yet.

[Shocker]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

I am absolutely desperately looking for a quick fix at WR, at almost any cost other than trading our own future 1st round picks.  Like your other post said, sometimes you need patience, and I have always and will always be on board with that as a general rule for building a withstanding franchise.

But after what we spent to get Bryce and how he's looked so far, we can't be patient in getting him a #1 weapon for both his own development and for the future of this franchise.

I know I'm not the biggest Bryce fan on here, but even his staunches supporters have to admit that he still has a long way to go to prove he has elite potential, and even then, he does have size/strength concerns.

If we end up in a Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray situation, we have to take the parachute and draft the new QB.  So until we know one way or the other, we can't trade any future first round pick of our own right now, they have to be kept for potential QB replacement or even just an elite top 10 prospect on a rookie contract (maybe even a WR).

But we won't know about Bryce until we get him that #1 WR, not giving him one for his first two years in the NFL is a quick way to ruin a QB's career.  I am absolutely fine to overpay to get one of those type of guys, it's the most important thing for the future and growth of Bryce, and in turn, our franchise.

It's also why I'm so strongly against guys like Jeudy, as I don't think he's that guy and he's a locker room concern with his diva mentality, terribly wrong fit and I'd turn him down at a value and overpay for someone like Higgins, Jameson, or if guys like Aiyuk or Devonta Smith might become available in the offseason because teams can't afford another high priced WR to extend.

In regards to Jameson though, I think getting Bryce his top target from his Heisman season would help, especially with his speed, he can change coverages.  Then you add a guy like Curtis Samuel to do the short routes over the middle with speed too and we have a great top 4 with those two, Thielen and Mingo.

The TLDR version is Bryce's development should be the #1 priority of this franchise and getting him a #1 WR is the first step in doing that.

Will read when not hammered 

[Davidson Deac II]

14 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Because Bryce isn't ready (and may never be able to) lead a SB contention team without elite weapons.

Maybe he could get there someday, but it's clear the lack of an elite outside WR is limiting his development right now.  It's not even just for him to pass to, but because it changes how defenses can run their coverages.

Right now they don't need to worry about doubling anyone or keeping safeties over the top, they can get extra pass rushers because of it, all while his WRs outside of Thielen struggle to get open for him to have clean throwing windows.

I also think teams winning SB's with just a bunch of good WRs and no great ones, is going to mostly be a thing of the past.  Today's NFL is changing and it's a passing league lead by truly elite WR talent.  Sure, KC last year didn't have one, but they have Kelce and the only QB in the league who could potentially challenge Brady for GOAT status someday.

But look at the other SB teams in recent years...

KC played against the Eagles (Brown, Smith), Rams (Kupp) vs Bengals (Chase, Higgins), Bucs (Evans, Godwin, AB) vs KC (Tyreek, Kelce), KC (Tyreek, Kelce) vs 49ers (Deebo, Kittle).

 

 

 

I am not sure I would consider several of those guys elite. Some are, some maybe not.  But regardless, it seems that there are several ways to build a SB winner.  Tampa Bay and the Rams did it with vet qb's they picked up in the offseason and elite defenses.   I mean for all the talk about Brady, Tampa Bay held Mahomes and Tyreek Hill to 9 points.  The Chiefs did it with a great qb and an elite wr who was an undrafted free agent the first time around, and no elite receivers in the second one.  The Dolphins have more weapons than any team in the NFL, but they have yet to even get a playoff win.  Might this year, but they got smacked around by an Eagles team that played great defense.  

It would be nice to have an elite receiver, but in terms of winning super bowls, these things change every year.  This year, it could be a offensive shootout, next year could be another low scoring affair like the Patriots Rams sb from a few years ago.  

[CRA]

50 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Why do we need a elite receiver?  I mean certainly they help, but most SB winners have several good ones instead of one great one. 

If we trade Burns so be it.  But I would rather it be for a haul of picks, instead of just one to get a top receiver.   

Recent winners have had some top tier receiving talent counting TEs. 

guess it depends on the definition of good.  

 

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, t96 said:

Fair point but I’m not sure how this relates to Bryce’s development. I think it’s better for him to need to get the ball to players and make the plays rather than let an elite yac dude do all the work. Any offense would love to have that type of player, we just had one too and traded him away for Bryce. I think we just need guys who can get open so Bryce has the opportunity to make plays. Evans gets open consistently at all levels of the field. He’d be a huge add in FA if we could get him. Thielen is great out of the slot but we have nobody else. Mingo is showing some promise but obviously isn’t there yet.

Yes, in an ideal world, Bryce is the one making the plays.

But he's nowhere near that yet and if I'm being frank, I don't think he ever will be, he'll be a great mental game manager who will make some slick plays and passes, but I don't see him ever having the elite arm talent to make the throws the top guys make every week.

Plus, with the status of our current offensive line play, we need those type of YAC guys because Bryce needs to get the ball out quick, he doesn't get enough time to let things develop downfield.

I also think with the way Bryce likes to extend plays, getting that guy who is working the middle of the field and you can get him the ball in space would be more beneficial than an Evans who's really most effective on those plays by getting behind the safeties, and I don't think Bryce has that deep ball arm to properly take advantage of it.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Keep burns, no need whatsoever to trade him for the WRs listed, or for anything short of a combination of picks and that’s still questionable. 

either you inquire about metcalf since he would still be on the bryce young rookie contract timeline, or sign someone like evans etc next offseason. 

we can’t afford to trade away more talent without a sure fire replacement in hand, it’s caught up to us this year
 

[Aussie Tank]

19 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yes, in an ideal world, Bryce is the one making the plays.

But he's nowhere near that yet and if I'm being frank, I don't think he ever will be, he'll be a great mental game manager who will make some slick plays and passes, but I don't see him ever having the elite arm talent to make the throws the top guys make every week.

Plus, with the status of our current offensive line play, we need those type of YAC guys because Bryce needs to get the ball out quick, he doesn't get enough time to let things develop downfield.

I also think with the way Bryce likes to extend plays, getting that guy who is working the middle of the field and you can get him the ball in space would be more beneficial than an Evans who's really most effective on those plays by getting behind the safeties, and I don't think Bryce has that deep ball arm to properly take advantage of it.

Bryce Young can hit deep shots. No he can’t really do it off his back foot. So thats why we need to sure up our Oline aswell. Evans would be phenomenal for Bryce. Even when he’s covered he’s not with that catch radius and hands if all else fails toss up a 1 on 1 for Evans and let him make a play 

[GhostWhispah]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

What are you going on about? I said just that about Mike Evans for like three straight comments. He pointed out that Evans isn’t a burner and I said he still had good wheels. He said he preferred Higgins because he’s more twitchy fast and younger and I said he was the same type of player as Evans. Meaning he is a good speed but not great and he wins the 50/50 balls. 
 

There’s zero need for the dramatics. 

 

We need breakaway speed. Jamo will make Bryce happy, trust me on this.

Bryce and Jamo are meant to be together. No other receivers matters for the Panthers in the trading market.

Its a special connection, the Bama connection so the sooner you realized this, the better off you be. Make it happen Fitter!!!!

https://heavy.com/sports/detroit-lions/brian-burns-jameson-williams-nfl-rumors/