The elephant in the zone

[Mr. Scot]

Decided to do a little research related to the blocking issues. Specifically, the unfortunate fact that we use a zone blocking scheme which appears to be a mismatch for our OL personnel. Because of this, I wanted to check out the histories and profiles of the square pegs we've been trying so hard to shove through round holes.

Here's what I found...

Line guru James Campen has coached zone blocking plenty before (in Green Bay mostly) so he knows what it's about. He's familiar with the schemes and the fits. In fact, when he went to San Diego the team reportedly let him decide what kind of blocking the offense (coordinated by Shane Steichen, FYI) was going to use.

Draft profiling of Brad Bozeman critiqued him as a poor fit for a zone blocking scheme and much better suited for man / power running. He's a smart player and good center though, and was part of a zone scheme with the Ravens. Of course, Ravens brass also let him go.

Free agent evaluations of Austin Corbett had him pegged as solid in a zone scheme. That of course makes perfect sense given that he did well in Los Angeles as part of Sean McVay's attack. His return has brought at least a little improvement to a Panthers line that is still overall bad.

A film analysis of Taylor Moton done a few years ago for the Roaring Riot touted his athleticism and quick footwork being good for zone blocking, and watching him this year bears that out. Thanks to Moton and Corbett, the right side of the line hasn't been where the majority of the problems are happening.

Prior to the draft, people debated whether Ikem Ekwonu should be a guard or a tackle. The answer to that seems pretty clearly scheme related, and in a zone scheme he should be a guard. Speed rushers are known to give him problems anyway, so here's hoping this is considered.

Couldn't find much in the way of scheme specific scouting of Chandler Zavala, but what i did find had him as a better run blocker than pass blocker. It did also mention his footwork being superior to his power. Having watched him get pushed around a lot, that doesn't come as a surprise.

Looked a little at some of the backups as well. Saw speculation that the switch to zone wouldn't be good for Cade Mays, and Nash Jensen was seen by one draft analyst as a "small area power guy" whose limited movement and agility make him a poor blocker"on the move".

Finally, what about our big missing piece, i.e. Brady Christensen? Worth remembering he was a left tackle in college. BYU's wide field scheme required agility on his part but he wasn't weak as a power blocker either. He'd be pretty well suited to the scheme.

Mind you, i's also worth taking a brief look at the runningbacks on roster right now. Zone blocking schemes tend to work best with cutback runners who can change direction quickly when a hole opens up. We do have at least one of those on roster in Raheem Blackshear, but his playing time has been pretty limited.

So, bottom line...

Granted we could conceivably switch to man blocking next season, but if we do stick with this scheme next season, the return of Brady Christensen should help. But it'd probably help even more if he goes to left tackle and Ickey goes to guard. That's not a new thought as it's been discussed here before.

It's most likely also wishful thinking.

But hey, what else have we got right now?

[SmokinwithWilly]

It's been said a lot this year already about poor scheme fit for some of these guys, but how the coaches haven't addressed it is mind boggling. 3 of 5 and the entire blind side are not strong in that scheme so it makes perfect sense to use it. 

[Mr. Scot]

49 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It's been said a lot this year already about poor scheme fit for some of these guys, but how the coaches haven't addressed it is mind boggling. 3 of 5 and the entire blind side are not strong in that scheme so it makes perfect sense to use it. 

Said elsewhere, that's what I really don't get.

Campen would obviously know, but I find it hard to believe he's the only one. Hell, it's been called out by analysts, reporters and fans alike.

Is anybody talking about it internally?

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Decided to do a little research related to the blocking issues. Specifically, the unfortunate fact that we use a zone blocking scheme which appears to be a mismatch for our OL personnel. Because of this, I wanted to check out the histories and profiles of the square pegs we've been trying so hard to shove through round holes.

Here's what I found...

Line guru James Campen has coached zone blocking plenty before (in Green Bay mostly) so he knows what it's about. He's familiar with the schemes and the fits. In fact, when he went to San Diego the team reportedly let him decide what kind of blocking the offense (coordinated by Shane Steichen, FYI) was going to use.

Draft profiling of Brad Bozeman critiqued him as a poor fit for a zone blocking scheme and much better suited for man / power running. He's a smart player and good center though, and was part of a zone scheme with the Ravens. Of course, Ravens brass also let him go.

Free agent evaluations of Austin Corbett had him pegged as solid in a zone scheme. That of course makes perfect sense given that he did well in Los Angeles as part of Sean McVay's attack. His return has brought at least a little improvement to a Panthers line that is still overall bad.

A film analysis of Taylor Moton done a few years ago for the Roaring Riot touted his athleticism and quick footwork being good for zone blocking, and watching him this year bears that out. Thanks to Moton and Corbett, the right side of the line hasn't been where the majority of the problems are happening.

Prior to the draft, people debated whether Ikem Ekwonu should be a guard or a tackle. The answer to that seems pretty clearly scheme related, and in a zone scheme he should be a guard. Speed rushers are known to give him problems anyway, so here's hoping this is considered.

Couldn't find much in the way of scheme specific scouting of Chandler Zavala, but what i did find had him as a better run blocker than pass blocker. It did also mention his footwork being superior to his power. Having watched him get pushed around a lot, that doesn't come as a surprise.

Looked a little at some of the backups as well. Saw speculation that the switch to zone wouldn't be good for Cade Mays, and Nash Jensen was seen by one draft analyst as a "small area power guy" whose limited movement and agility make him a poor blocker"on the move".

Finally, what about our big missing piece, i.e. Brady Christensen? Worth remembering he was a left tackle in college. BYU's wide field scheme required agility on his part but he wasn't weak as a power blocker either. He'd be pretty well suited to the scheme.

Mind you, i's also worth taking a brief look at the runningbacks on roster right now. Zone blocking schemes tend to work best with cutback runners who can change direction quickly when a hole opens up. We do have at least one of those on roster in Raheem Blackshear, but his playing time has been pretty limited.

So, bottom line...

Granted we could conceivably switch to man blocking next season, but if we do stick with this scheme next season, the return of Brady Christensen should help. But it'd probably help even more if he goes to left tackle and Ickey goes to guard. That's not a new thought as it's been discussed here before.

It's most likely also wishful thinking.

But hey, what else have we got right now?

Sure. We could do plenty of things to make this situation better, Steve Wilks and Ben McAdoo did. Or we could just keep doing the same fuging thing every Sunday. What do you imagine we will do?

 

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It's been said a lot this year already about poor scheme fit for some of these guys, but how the coaches haven't addressed it is mind boggling. 3 of 5 and the entire blind side are not strong in that scheme so it makes perfect sense to use it. 

It isn't rare that coaches cannot get past their own ideas/vision for their teams. I have seen HOF coaches do it, mediocre coaches do it and it's a hallmark of bad coaches.

This is just another example. Strangely enough, you could at least see in Rhule's schizophrenic reign that they were frantically trying to do something, ANYTHING(to a fault). But this....this is just old school being stubborn..

IMO, we should be switching to a much more simple power rushing/play action attack just like we did last year. Literally what do we have to lose? 

But we won't. Just trust these guys, once we get a big enough mallet, these square pegs will fit.

[BrianS]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

IMO, we should be switching to a much more simple power rushing/play action attack just like we did last year. Literally what do we have to lose? 

But we won't. Just trust these guys, once we get a big enough mallet, these square pegs will fit.

I do think there's a reason we won't switch, and it's our QB.  He can't run that scheme.

[hepcat]

Last season, the Panthers were 10th in the league in rushing yards, 12th in YPC, and tied for 12th in rushing TDs.

They brought back the same offensive line and two of the same running backs. 

This season they are 30th in rushing yards, 27th in YPC, and 31st in the NFL with a whopping 2 rushing TDs.

Frank Reich and his staff are garbage and should be fired immediately. They didn’t adjust the scheme to the players, they adopted a pass first attack with a rookie QB who can’t throw over defenders and struggles with decision making. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by hepcat

[Shotgun]

44 minutes ago, BrianS said:

I do think there's a reason we won't switch, and it's our QB.  He can't run that scheme.

I'm not sure there's a NFL scheme that Young would do well in. What are Youngs strengths?  

[Wundrbread33]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

I do think there's a reason we won't switch, and it's our QB.  He can't run that scheme.

He can’t run the current scheme though.

[jamos14]

Did you guys really turn a thread about the OL being in the incorrect scheme into another "blame Bryce thread".  Get a fuging grip.

 

 

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

Did you guys really turn a thread about the OL being in the incorrect scheme into another "blame Bryce thread".  Get a fuging grip.

 

 

If you're up before 8 am pooing posts in anger maybe it's you that needs to "get a fuging grip".

Just saying...

[jamos14]

Like I said, keep posting dumb poo, it will keep getting poo'd.  

Just saying.

[frankw]

Just now, jamos14 said:

Like I said, keep posting dumb poo, it will keep getting poo'd.  

Just saying.

Nice Tepper avatar.

[jamos14]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Nice Tepper avatar.

Don't get it twisted; we are on the same side with him.

 

He's been a bum.  I just haven't bothered to change the avatar. I was actually excited for him in 2018.