Scheme issues continue

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The one thing you can say about Young is he can't stay in the traditional pocket and they need to give him space to have a chance. That isn't performance based but just an observation. He is swalloed up so fast I'm not even sure he can throw it away. Even with better blocking keeping the sacks off won't change that.

They have to try but there is not much to hope for there. Run another scheme further away from what he needs or keep doing more of the same while talking about changing personnel chasing that dream and avoiding the sad truth about his severe limitations. He doesn't have the wheels to Willson it away and create the space he needs to function.

They can't change anything because they already know it won't work any better and they also know they can't make what they want to work so it's full steam ahead waiting for the axe to fall. Plus Reich is the pivot point on coaching and his change record is the nail in their coffin for them all.

Is he being asked to, though?

They had a successful sequence yesterday that involved in being under center.

Then they never went back to it

[Billy Goat]

This is why Tepper has to act and Dutch Reich. He has a lot invested in Young in terms of draft capital. He has to give it a fair shake for at least one more year with a coordinator who'll create an offence to suit the QB. If he looks poo after that then you have to rip it up and start again in the 2025 draft.

[Waldo]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Is he being asked to, though?

They had a successful sequence yesterday that involved in being under center.

Then they never went back to it

The element of surprise goes away after the initial use. That's like a backup coming out you hadn't watch any film on.

[Jay Roosevelt]

I've been a defender of Bryce from the start, but I will certainly admit that he has been awful at times and the arrow certainly doesn't appear to be pointing up at this point.

Having said that, it is so hard to identify where Bryce's struggles end and the team's struggles around him begin. As has been said, the playcaller is meaningless if the scheme itself is the same bland, out of date, predictable garbage we've run all year.

I think if Thomas Brown was retained and allowed to run his scheme under a new HC (Evero?) then we might just see a massive improvement based on that alone.

Bryce has been very bad, there's no sugar-coating that fact now. But there are larger systemic issues at play here that we have to address before we can even say with any confidence that Bryce ever even had a chance to produce here. That starts with the coaching staff and should also include a GM who can actually acquire good talent rather than giving it away for peanuts.

[CRA]

Just now, Waldo said:

The element of surprise goes away after the initial use. That's like a backup coming out you hadn't watch any film on.

it shouldn't be used as an element of surprise.  They also need to clearly alter their run/pass ratio. They should be consistently working under C.  Run game would work better.  You would finally get some real playaction.  Which would help give Bryce some time to make a play.   

Not saying you eliminate the shotgun.....but you can't work exclusively from it.  And you can't have this run/pass ratio.  And you got to mix up how you are running out of the gun.   Life is a dream for opposing defenses right now. 

We don't have the talent to run this scheme.  And it is just ruining Bryce and preventing development.  While an adjusted scheme isn't ideal for Bryce he would at least be forced into a learning role of NFL basics, the run game would function better, Bryce takes less sacks/hits, and you probably could mitigate some of the damage being done to Bryce. 

[Shotgun]

36 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

You would think that they could try new wide receivers, adjust the play calls etc. there really is zero excuse for the results we have had. The Giants managed to win a game yesterday with an undrafted rookie QB and even he threw for three touchdowns. Hell, you could pull out a game like when we direct snapped to Deangelo Williams the entire fugging game against Atlanta back in the day when we had Chris Weinkie in who attempted less than 5 passes, if I’m not mistaken. There are ways to win football games dispite the team’s shortcomings, we just don’t have a coaching staff capable of pulling out a win no matter what the circumstances are, good or bad.  

When the coaching staff is forced to play the worst qb on our roster there isn’t much that can be done. It’s impossible to hide young’s weaknesses.

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

it shouldn't be used as an element of surprise.  They also need to clearly alter their run/pass ratio. They should be consistently working under C.  Run game would work better.  You would finally get some real playaction.  Which would help give Bryce some time to make a play.   

Not saying you eliminate the shotgun.....but you can't work exclusively from it.  And you can't have this run/pass ratio.  And you got to mix up how you are running out of the gun.   Life is a dream for opposing defenses right now. 

We don't have the talent to run this scheme.  And it is just ruining Bryce and preventing development.  While an adjusted scheme isn't ideal for Bryce he would at least be forced into a learning role of NFL basics, the run game would function better, Bryce takes less sacks/hits, and you probably could mitigate some of the damage being done to Bryce. 

It really shouldn't. They should have taken Bryce back to NFL basics that you mention weeks ago.

Shotgun is fine if the D respects anything going on but when they don't then this is what you get. Well that and a QB who can get rid of it very quickly which means they need good vision...

Edited November 20, 2023 by Waldo

[frankw]

The Bears and Giants are two of the worst teams in the league yet both had undrafted backup quarterbacks put up performances equal to or better than Bryce Young's best game to date.

You can only blame the scheme so much. At some point your QB has to dig in and make some plays regardless of circumstances. That's what you expect from a #1 overall pick. I feel like some people have become accustomed to just pointing fingers and lowering expectations.

Edited November 20, 2023 by frankw

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The element of surprise goes away after the initial use. That's like a backup coming out you hadn't watch any film on.

That's overthinking, though.

[Waldo]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

That's overthinking, though.

It's is a real thing. You know what they say about having film.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It's is a real thing. You know what they say about having film.

I do,but that doesn't mean you shy away from something that can work just because someone might see you doing it.

[Manna]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Continuing to go pass heavy against Dallas definitely wasn't the answer.

Especially when the run game was working. 

[Evil Hurney]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

We're continuing to try and run a West Coast Offense with personnel who just don't hit a WCO scheme.

Going to disagree. I was happy to see multiple running plays yesterday that used a power run scheme. I'm pretty sure Olsen commented on it during the broadcast as well. They also put Bryce under center more than I can remember in any other game.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Evil Hurney

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I do,but that doesn't mean you shy away from something that can work just because someone might see you doing it.

I never said shy away from it. I have said that was a better direction since the season started.

I just made the point of tempered expectations.