What does Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin think about our offseason?

[panthers55]

I was listening to Pat Kirwin and Tim Ryn and a caller from Charlotte asked them about what they thought about the moves we made so far.

Ryan said we were definitely doing this to save money and felt that they were not giving Fox the tools to be successful this year. He said that it almost guaranteed that Fox would be a lame duck coach and be let go at the end of the season. He felt that the moves didn't make much sense particularly when we didn't have many draft picks and some of the better guys in free agency were actually the guys we were letting go.

Kirwin for his part said he felt sorry for Fox and Hurney because they were going to have a chance to compete given how many veterans were let go. He said the problem was that we would be counting on at least 6-7 guys to step up and start for us. It isn't bad to do that with a couple of guys but we were counting on too many guys all to have to step up at the same time. If only 2 or 3 actually do it, we have serious holes and issues. He then went down the list of new guys who had to step up and asked if they were capable. Here was his analysis:

Moore- yes

Jarrett- no

Johnson- no

Brown- no

Fiametta- likely

Connor- possible

Irvin- no

Louis- no

So he said outside of Moore and Fiametta none of the others were likely to be able to fill in adequately. He went on to say the other problem is who else is in our division. New Orleans will be getting better, Atlanta was improving and even Tampa will be improved. Even if we stay the same which he doesn't think we will, we didn't win the division last year and will have an uphill climb against better competition. He concluded that we were in trouble this year and could very well struggle. He felt we were going backwards while the rest of the division was getting better.

No I don't know how to get the link as I listened to it live but it paints a bleak picture. If they were just talking heads I might not give it any attention. But Kirwin used to be a GM and Ryan played in the league on the line so honestly I think they know what they are talking about. Truth is, outside of the euphoria I find on this forum, no one is touting these moves as anything but a mistake.

[OneBadassCat]

Well I guess they'll just have to be wrong.

[frash.exe]

[grateflday]

Well I guess they'll just have to be wrong.

Yep... and with this franchise what usually happens is the opposite of what the industry experts thinks...... so lets hope that is the case again.

[ladypanther]

Listening to them the past couple of years I don't think they really know much about the Panthers. Can't really do anything indepth, not sure they know more than they read in the headlines. Sometimes what they say is not accurate. And they always sing the praises of John Fox.

[Liminy]

[SmootsDaddy89]

The fact that he was a mediocre GM for the Jets doesn't mean anything to me, and it certainly doesn't mean he has a clear grasp of how our team is capable of performing. Hell, I'd put more stock in what the current Rams' GM has to say about our situation, because he actually has motivation to have any idea what he's talking about, because his job partially depends on knowing how other teams will perform top to bottom, whereas Kirwin and Ryan can regurgitate baseless speculation ad nauseam.

I mean hell, Kirwin was CONVINCED, NO DOUBT IN HIS MIND that Kitna would throw for 5000 yards and 30 touchdowns after the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson.

And if Kirwin held the opposite opinion, you'd go on about what an idiot he is.

[Glenn07]

Seems that the FO isn't giving the team or it's coaches any chance at winning this year. It's like they are pulling the rug out from under them. I understand how they think we need to "get younger" and are scared about the whole CBA. But this year we were primed to make a run. Easier schedule, the defense was clicking, and with Moore starting at QB we could have been 10-6 at worse IMO. I think they should have tried to renegotiate Jake's contract. We need a QB...maybe two now! Maybe that couldn't have happened for what ever reason, but I think we should have tried to keep him on as a backup. And get rid of Hoover??? He was a main reason for the success of "Double Trouble"...and they will tell you that themselves. We have no defensive line from last year left...no one to kick off...I don't get it. Soooo many holes to fill. And looks like they just want to sign scrubs and hope for the best. Don't you have have to have at least 53 men on your roster to have a team?? I don't see how that is going to happen! How many draft picks do we have...like 4?? Fox will not have a winning year this year...no way. So how can they fire him if he doesn't have a chance going in to the season?? Maybe there is a conspiracy between Cower and JR for 2011 (or 2012...whenever there is football again.) ...just a thought.:confused:

[Urrymonster]

The thing is, the list of players they went through were already performing on a par with the vets they have subsequently replaced.

Johnson played over 400 snaps for us this past year, whilst missing 3 weeks with small injuries. During that time he surpassed Brayton as a pass rusher by putting up 21 pressures, 2 hits and 4 sacks (~10% of pass plays he made a play). Is actually debatable who was better against the run between he and Brayton.

Brown also played approximately 400 snaps and although there is no way he could replace Pep, he showed exactly what he is good at with 13 pressures, 7 hits and 3 sacks (~8.6% of pass plays). He was the pick of the 4-3 defensive end rookies from 2009, so whilst he will not replace Peps ability, he will be far froma redundant player.

Combined these two just need a decent vet sitting behind them, someone like Douglas who can be an insurance policy if either starts to falter.

Jarrett & Irvin I agree with, however Leonard was our best Dt when he played. To the point where we were stunned at how we got this guy with a 6th. His injury should not have had any lasting impacts on his athleticism, so it would be odd for his performance to suddenly disappear. Remember he was a contributing player at a decent standard for the Browns as well. Regardless, I feel that having him or Lewis in the line up would make little difference. Disappointed Kemo has been snapped up, as he would have been good to look at after his rehab had finished, but as he did not play last year, it's irrelevant even using him as a comparison for the cuts.

So, if you stick a vet behind Johnson and Brown that gives a bit of wiggle room for one of those to falter. So considering that, we could have under performing players at SLB, WR, UT. That's not exactly a huge number of positions to really focus on for the rest of free agency and the draft.

[Zod]

Scary thing is they may be right on target.

[pantherclaw]

I was listening to Pat Kirwin and Tim Ryn and a caller from Charlotte asked them about what they thought about the moves we made so far.

Ryan said we were definitely doing this to save money and felt that they were not giving Fox the tools to be successful this year. He said that it almost guaranteed that Fox would be a lame duck coach and be let go at the end of the season. He felt that the moves didn't make much sense particularly when we didn't have many draft picks and some of the better guys in free agency were actually the guys we were letting go.

Kirwin for his part said he felt sorry for Fox and Hurney because they were going to have a chance to compete given how many veterans were let go. He said the problem was that we would be counting on at least 6-7 guys to step up and start for us. It isn't bad to do that with a couple of guys but we were counting on too many guys all to have to step up at the same time. If only 2 or 3 actually do it, we have serious holes and issues. He then went down the list of new guys who had to step up and asked if they were capable. Here was his analysis:

Moore- yes

Jarrett- no

Johnson- no

Brown- no

Fiametta- likely

Connor- possible

Irvin- no

Louis- no

So he said outside of Moore and Fiametta none of the others were likely to be able to fill in adequately. He went on to say the other problem is who else is in our division. New Orleans will be getting better, Atlanta was improving and even Tampa will be improved. Even if we stay the same which he doesn't think we will, we didn't win the division last year and will have an uphill climb against better competition. He concluded that we were in trouble this year and could very well struggle. He felt we were going backwards while the rest of the division was getting better.

No I don't know how to get the link as I listened to it live but it paints a bleak picture. If they were just talking heads I might not give it any attention. But Kirwin used to be a GM and Ryan played in the league on the line so honestly I think they know what they are talking about. Truth is, outside of the euphoria I find on this forum, no one is touting these moves as anything but a mistake.

Either of these guys been employed by a scouting office? No? Then their opinion is just that...an opinion. They are intitled to it.

[pantherclaw]

The thing with going young, is nobody knows for sure how it's going to turn out ~ but, at some point, you have to make the decision to go with the guys you've been building your team with. Could it be scary? Sure, but it also can be scary to rely upon Vets that were never great to begin with.

[SorthNarolina]

Listening to them the past couple of years I don't think they really know much about the Panthers. Can't really do anything indepth, not sure they know more than they read in the headlines. Sometimes what they say is not accurate. And they always sing the praises of John Fox.

I actually called them one time after their mock draft said we would trade up for matt ryan. I told them how we didn't go after high round QBs and we would much more likely take a RB or DT with our pick and they thought that was silly. So I don't think they pay much attention to us but who does?

But i think they're pretty right on this one.

[panthers34]

Im telling u jarret will step up if he gets the chance and i also think brown will step up and get some sacks