Watching Giants Off-Season Hard Knocks and Something is Crystallizing...

[Wundrbread33]

We just need to give Dan the benefit of the doubt until he shows he shouldn’t be GM. 
 

It’s my opinion that Burns can’t be held against him. 
 

I understand anything reminding us of Fitt/Rhule leaves a bad taste, and Morgan may end up a terrible GM, but I’m willing to give him a couple seasons with judgement aside. 
 

Naturally, we all can do what we want, and I absolutely could be coping/holding on to fandom of Dan the player; but it’s allowed me to enjoy the off-season more. And I have, outside of the bad feeling I have about the QB position.

[Panthering]

9 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

seeing their conversation started with Dan asking for two ones

I always took this as a light joke and jab with a friend in Schoen towards Fitterer turning down the Rams trade. I think Burns was a lost cause once Dan had the reigns and just had to settle with a suitor somewhere. 

[Jon Snow]

6 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

We just need to give Dan the benefit of the doubt until he shows he shouldn’t be GM. 
 

It’s my opinion that Burns can’t be held against him. 
 

I understand anything reminding us of Fitt/Rhule leaves a bad taste, and Morgan may end up a terrible GM, but I’m willing to give him a couple seasons with judgement aside. 
 

Naturally, we all can do what we want, and I absolutely could be coping/holding on to fandom of Dan the player; but it’s allowed me to enjoy the off-season more. And I have, outside of the bad feeling I have about the QB position.

I'm rooting for him to do great things for this team. But as with any high profile job he will be relentlessly scrutinized by fans and media know-it-alls everywhere. I have selfish reasons to wish him well because I want to see the team win.

[thennek]

One of the good things Dan Morgan has brought:  Many of the past Panthers players are now coming back to be a part of the Panthers practices and etc.  We have not been seeing that the past several years.  It is good to see a lot of the Panthers 'greats' hanging around.  This is a positive.  

[Tr3ach]

1 hour ago, Wundrbread33 said:

We just need to give Dan the benefit of the doubt until he shows he shouldn’t be GM. 
 

It’s my opinion that Burns can’t be held against him. 
 

I understand anything reminding us of Fitt/Rhule leaves a bad taste, and Morgan may end up a terrible GM, but I’m willing to give him a couple seasons with judgement aside. 
 

Naturally, we all can do what we want, and I absolutely could be coping/holding on to fandom of Dan the player; but it’s allowed me to enjoy the off-season more. And I have, outside of the bad feeling I have about the QB position.

I don't blame Dan at all for the Burns situation.   My biggest concerns for Dan that are entirely on him so far is the draft and personnel decisions feel exactly like fitterer.  Maybe that said these players will pan out but we will see.  I juat don't see the vision.  I hate taking old "raw" players anyways and then the players themselves don't seem to fit any vision or scheme.  It all just feels like a hodgepodge of different players thrown together that don't fit together. 

[Manna]

For me, the only folks that deserve the benefit of the doubt and time, from this organization, for now are Dan, Dave, and the rookies. 

[Waldo]

No one deserves the benefit of the doubt because no one has earned it yet. It's been a disappointing offseason, a weird preseason and hearing anyone talk about their long term plans when they can't do better in the short term only confirms it as more of the same BS that has been slung since 2020. Do something while stop making excuses and earn some respect or keep being a gaggle of clowns. 

[strato]

32 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

I don't blame Dan at all for the Burns situation.   My biggest concerns for Dan that are entirely on him so far is the draft and personnel decisions feel exactly like fitterer.  Maybe that said these players will pan out but we will see.  I juat don't see the vision.  I hate taking old "raw" players anyways and then the players themselves don't seem to fit any vision or scheme.  It all just feels like a hodgepodge of different players thrown together that don't fit together. 

Yeah that is something I see too and feel like it is partly a result of uncertainty about how to go forward. They have the mandate, I certainly believe that, to do everything possible to make it work with Young at QB.

Which lands them squarely  here:  one foot and half a brain in Bryce offense land, but the other foot and 1/2 brain are still in ‘this is the NFl’ land. 

They are conflicted, sitting between fantasy and reality. My opinion. 

edit: we haven’t seen anything yet so maybe there is this super tailored just for Bryce that negates all his disadvantages. It would be the only way forward, but have they bought in enough to go that route?*

more edit: *Because they could decide to half ass it with Bryce and look at fixing the rest of the mess this year and do the deed for a new QB next year?

Edited August 12, 2024 by strato

[CanadianCat]

I think people have short memories. This is why we still have a lot of people on this bord thinking we got rid of Cam for no reason... without remembering that he was coming off an injury and wanted a new contract. Football moves are not made in isolation of contracts. That what happened to Cam and that's what happened with Burns. The moment we rejected the trade we were locked into a a sky high contract that EVERYONE here would agree Burn's didn't merit. 

So it was either trade him or pay him. And the giants traded us draft picks for the RIGHT TO GIVE HIM A NEW CONTRACT. 

2 years ago with the Rams offer, there were years left on his contract making him more valuable. 

So its not apples to apples looking at the draft picks offered by the Rams vs the draft picks we got from the Giants. 

[frankw]

I would have preferred to keep Burns somehow. Declining the Rams offer is a hindsight thing where obviously you look back with regret. But the whole reason we declined the trade was bc we were supposed to be building something. Instead we later traded away DJ Moore with zero plan to replace him. Then after we move on from Burns because we didn't want to pay him what he was asking we spend over 100 million dollars on the oline and watch (almost) all our backups play like the worst roster in the NFL in the first preseason game. It's just been one trainwreck to the next.

My biggest thing with Morgan right now is the talk of this new dawg mentality he's been seeking. I'm just not seeing it in any way shape or form from the offense. In fact seeing our #1 pick blindly throwing interceptions into double coverage in practice and then acting as if he could barely care is the complete opposite of any dawg mentality. As of right now I don't think the future looks good for Dan. It might not be entirely his fault but this is his ship now.

Edited August 12, 2024 by frankw

[Tr3ach]

14 minutes ago, strato said:

Yeah that is something I see too and feel like it is partly a result of uncertainty about how to go forward. They have the mandate, I certainly believe that, to do everything possible to make it work with Young at QB.

Which lands them squarely  here:  one foot and half a brain in Bryce offense land, but the other foot and 1/2 brain are still in ‘this is the NFl’ land. 

They are conflicted, sitting between fantasy and reality. My opinion. 

edit: we haven’t seen anything yet so maybe there is this super tailored just for Bryce that negates all his disadvantages. It would be the only way forward, but have they bought in enough to go that route?*

more edit: *Because they could decide to half ass it with Bryce and look at fixing the rest of the mess this year and do the deed for a new QB next year?

I don't think that's what's causing the mistakes though.  If you're doing everything you can to build around Young then you don't draft XL.  They don't fit together at all and there were so many WR available that would fit much better with Young's strengths and weaknesses.

[strato]

16 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think people have short memories. This is why we still have a lot of people on this bord thinking we got rid of Cam for no reason... without remembering that he was coming off an injury and wanted a new contract. Football moves are not made in isolation of contracts. That what happened to Cam and that's what happened with Burns. The moment we rejected the trade we were locked into a a sky high contract that EVERYONE here would agree Burn's didn't merit. 

So it was either trade him or pay him. And the giants traded us draft picks for the RIGHT TO GIVE HIM A NEW CONTRACT. 

2 years ago with the Rams offer, there were years left on his contract making him more valuable. 

So its not apples to apples looking at the draft picks offered by the Rams vs the draft picks we got from the Giants. 

That was an issue. And if you were against paying him you were called names. 

As I remember back, the QB salary ceiling was starting to seriously escalate. The feeling was that Cam wanted top dollar and there was definite skepticism on my part because of his injury issues. We really were not dealing with something you could say, oh that’ll heal and it will be back to normal or 90% back (which I would still have taken, I thought he was better when forced to take something off the ball).

It was the timing of it that made it so hard, because you not only had to keep paying him you had to probably double it. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by strato

[strato]

3 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

I don't think that's what's causing the mistakes though.  If you're doing everything you can to build around Young then you don't draft XL.  They don't fit together at all and there were so many WR available that would fit much better with Young's strengths and weaknesses.

That is subjective. Canales was a WR coach before helping with QBs, I would think he learned a little something. 

I go to Russel Wilson every time I think about what WR for Bryce Young. Run around, heave it high and hope, and have a guy out there flagging it down.

That doesn’t require greatly polished route running.

I look at Young and don’t see any normal type deep threat pick being worth it because he has not shown any consistency on his throws (I guess maybe he has with those pinpoint on the sideline deep throws, maybe that is intentional?). Okay I really don’t believe that he has that going on but okay lets wait and see.  

[strato]

Want to add, too, that a Cam with the wisdom of 7 or 8 years that moves into 10 years, I wish we could have had that because that would have been the best Cam. I think he would have kept growing.