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A look back at preseason predictions

kungfoodude

By kungfoodude,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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55 minutes ago, CRA said:

if you drafted Ladd, he wouldn't need to be a understudy.....he would just need to take ATs spot/role.  See this season with the Chargers as the proof.   As a rookie, Ladd is outperforming anything AT has done in a half decade on the field. 

It's why I would love AT to stay if he was an outside #2.   My AT issue is he plays the slot role and is too old to move outside.  That was the Ladd issue of the draft.  Both are suited for 1 role/job on the field.  That means you put one on the bench or make the other less effective by playing them outside their ideal role.  XL presented the option to put 2 WRs in places they would both shine to their max. 

 

 

 

I prefer players that are capable of their jobs, hence why AT & Ladd made(and still make) far more sense than AT & XL or just XL alone. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I prefer players that are capable of their jobs, hence why AT & Ladd made(and still make) far more sense than AT & XL or just XL alone. 

Ok.  You drafted Ladd.   Where you playing Ladd.  Where you playing AT

I think the XL math just presents the highest ceiling (if he was what we thought he was).....because you get two in their ideal positions on the field.   Vs just 1. 

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Just now, CRA said:

Ok.  You drafted Ladd.   Where you playing Ladd.  Where you playing AT

 

Put them wherever you want. What is the benefit of a Mingo/TMJ/XL when they don't get open often enough nor catch the ball consistently when they do? 

I will take someone having to play out of their ideal position but will still be able to get open or make plays at a higher rate than the utterly unproductive player that they are replacing. 

I get that it's great to have the classic, stereotypical WR molds in their classic, stereotypical spots but the NFL also doesn't often work that way anymore. There are ample examples of players not fitting into these classic molds but are on the field because they make plays. 

That's what I am after, players that have the capabilities to actually impact games. Not theoretical abilities in classic molds that largely stay theoretical.

This is literally a big reason why we have failed so incredibly miserably in the last few years in these drafts. We chase RAS types that have high ceilings and abysmally low floors. It's the equivalent of investing in scratch off tickets rather than putting money in a solid investment fund.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Ok.  You drafted Ladd.   Where you playing Ladd.  Where you playing AT

I think the XL math just presents the highest ceiling (if he was what we thought he was).....because you get two in their ideal positions on the field.   Vs just 1. 

 

You can play Theilen anywhere. You don't have to just play him in the slot. Yes he's not a burner in the X but I guarantee he could get open there. Theilen is our gap filler until you fill all the wr positions as long as he wants to be. Any chance you get to go young with a good player you take it. The vet is smart enough to play other spots until the kid gets it or he himself is replaced. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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16 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

You can play Theilen anywhere. You don't have to just play him in the slot. Yes he's not a burner in the X but I guarantee he could get open there. Theilen is our gap filler until you fill all the wr positions as long as he wants to be. Any chance you get to go young with a good player you take it. The vet is smart enough to play other spots until the kid gets it or he himself is replaced. 

I just don't think you can play 2024 AT anywhere and get the same type reliability.  In 2024, he makes for a solid starting slot option.  You put him on the outside, he is not a solid starting option.  So you nerf him for Ladd.  

I'd love to see what his production is on the season lined up outside.  Which I think is about just 25% of his snaps (using a fantasy site on that).   That's why he made it to Carolina because he could no longer get it done out there. 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I just don't think you can play 2024 AT anywhere and get the same type reliability.  In 2024, he makes for a solid starting slot option.  You put him on the outside, he is not a solid starting option.  So you nerf him for Ladd.  

I'd love to see what his production is on the season lined up outside.  Which I think is about just 25% of his snaps (using a fantasy site on that).   That's why he made it to Carolina because he could no longer get it done out there. 

Yeah at this point in his career AT is almost strictly a slot. Slot is also the best spot for Ladd. We drafted XL because our coach wanted a X WR to play that Mike Evans role. Ladd wasn’t that guy. 

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RumHam Veteran

RumHam

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4-13, but not the way it has gone. i wasn't expecting garbage across the board, but the team is watchable with hope going forward. 8-9 wins next year (jets dolphins patriots will help that), then 10-11 the year after as long as we keep this offensive core and work on the defense.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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1 minute ago, CRA said:

I just don't think you can play 2024 AT anywhere and get the same type reliability.  In 2024, he makes for a solid starting slot option.  You put him on the outside, he is not a solid starting option.  So you nerf him for Ladd.  

I'd love to see what his production is on the season lined up outside.  Which I think is about just 25% of his snaps (using a fantasy site on that).   That's why he made it to Carolina because he could no longer get it done out there. 

Where you put him is not an indication that it his only role. You seem to want to lock a "type" of receiver in a specific role. Is Theilen not the best receiver we currently have? Does he only play the slot? You play the hand you're dealt and Canales is throwing these guys anywhere the are capable of playing right now.

Unfortunately, only Theilen can play them all, not always well at his age but he knows how to get open. The rookies are still learning with mixed results. They are not playing them where they want to but where they have to until they draft more help.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Where you put him is not an indication that it his only role. You seem to want to lock a "type" of receiver in a specific role. Is Theilen not the best receiver we currently have? Does he only play the slot? You play the hand you're dealt and Canales is throwing these guys anywhere the are capable of playing right now.

Unfortunately, only Theilen can play them all, not always well at his age but he knows how to get open. The rookies are still learning with mixed results. They are not playing them where they want to but where they have to until they draft more help.

to me the roles/position often can matter greatly for most players. You put AT in the slot 100% of the snaps for 3 games and then do it XL.....I suspect AT outperforms XL by a noteworthy margin.  I'm not sure AT could even really outperform XL on the outside of note in this Carolina O.   So that's a pretty big difference. 

Even youngsters.  Go back in time to Curtis Samuel.  2 very different players.  Outside vs slot.  One generate a very solid WR.  One generated  meh WR. 

Then there are the prime 89s.  Who are almost just as dangerous no matter the spot. 

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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2 minutes ago, CRA said:

to me the roles/position often can matter greatly for most players. You put AT in the slot 100% of the snaps for 3 games and then do it XL.....I suspect AT outperforms XL by a noteworthy margin.  I'm not sure AT could even really outperform XL on the outside of note in this Carolina O.   So that's a pretty big difference. 

Even youngsters.  Go back in time to Curtis Samuel.  2 very different players.  Outside vs slot.  One generate a very solid WR.  One generated  meh WR. 

Then there are the prime 89s.  Who are almost just as dangerous no matter the spot. 

It's not a permanent assignment. Where we stand we cannot be picky about what type receivers we are looking for.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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1 minute ago, jayboogieman said:

This is just sad and shows how poorly the team has drafted and hit on free agents under Tepper. They really need to forget RAS and go after productive college players.

That would be a good start. Stop look for 10's that won't give you the time of day. Grab a 7 that can cook and enjoy a happy life.

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