Panthers and Horn talks will be interesting

[csx]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

Actually there is a reason - Free Agency.  We have 8 weeks and this is a huge unknown for how much money we have to spend for the next 3-6 years.  If this doesn't get done fairly soon we should be concerned about it happening at all.

Brown was extended in April going in to his 5th year option. No immediate rush.

 

[Mistuh Jones]

IMO he's the best, most consistent corner we've had since freaking Chris Gamble. Pay the man. 

[Khaki Lackey]

33 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Hate to say it but if he needs Pat Surtain money, let him walk. For something lower but still good compensation, re-sign. He’s a good albeit not always healthy player. Focus on the pass rush and deal with one tier lower coverage if your rush can get to the QB. I mean look at what Ron did with garbage at corner for years with quality pass rushers 

Remember Norman and Bradberry? The front 7 makes a difference for sure, but it's not like elite DL grow on trees either.

[kungfoodude]

12 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Has Horn ever shown he is a consistent shut down CB? He has 5 INTs, 0 FF, 26 PDs, and 2 sacks in 37 starts. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for an entire season, and he has never been the deciding factor in a single game. He has not shown himself to be a playmaker even with his athleticism to be around the ball.

Extending players who fail to show they can be consistent after 4 seasons is crazy. If you didn’t want Norman and Gilmore extended, why would you want Horn extended beyond his 5th year option? I doubt he's taking a discount to stay with Evero.

I would say not consistently but he has been able to shut down his side of the field at times. I don't think he really fits as well with the Evero scheme. 

I also don't have an issue with him not being a crazy high INT guy. Being a shut down guy is more valuable than a guy like Donte Jackson, who is an insane ball hawk but because of that gets beat quite a bit.

Edited January 10 by kungfoodude

[Lame Duck]

Tag and trade baby!  Tag and trade!

[Peon Awesome]

With his injury history, he's definitely someone you have to consider letting play out his tag if his agent is being unreasonable. You can't pay him top tier corner money and hope he can actually stay healthy for 4-5 years. The reality is, we can afford to retag him next year if he has another strong, healthy year and leverage that into a new contract in 2026. At least then, if he's proven two consecutive elite, healthy seasons, you don't really worry as much with paying top tier money.

I have to think Horn also realizes if he is injured again next year, he loses his chance of ever seeing a big 2nd contract. If we push the guarantees, maybe he lives with sacrificing $20 million or so to ensure he is set up for life. Would you take 5 years, $85 million with $60 mil guaranteed now, or play on the tag next year, pray you don't get injured and hope for a 5 year, $110 million, $80 mil guaranteed next year vs possibility of getting injured and having to settle for a 1 year $10 million prove it 2nd contract. I'm sure that's where the discussions are going to be.

[Stingray3030]

1 hour ago, csx said:

Brown was extended in April going in to his 5th year option. No immediate rush.

 

1 specific example that is a completely different situation with no context - I guess my comments about an entire subject has been proven wrong.  Welcome to Millennial/Zenial logic, good grief.

[Adb6368]

13 hours ago, ECHornet said:

I can’t understand why he would reset the CB market above what Surtain makes. 

The best player at any given position is rarely the highest paid. Salary cap goes up annually giving more cash opportunity. New contracts are based on current/future salary cap and active contracts become outdated almost yearly. 

[Frank9999]

Just pay him what he wants hes worth it 

[Frank9999]

2 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

With his injury history, he's definitely someone you have to consider letting play out his tag if his agent is being unreasonable. You can't pay him top tier corner money and hope he can actually stay healthy for 4-5 years. The reality is, we can afford to retag him next year if he has another strong, healthy year and leverage that into a new contract in 2026. At least then, if he's proven two consecutive elite, healthy seasons, you don't really worry as much with paying top tier money.

I have to think Horn also realizes if he is injured again next year, he loses his chance of ever seeing a big 2nd contract. If we push the guarantees, maybe he lives with sacrificing $20 million or so to ensure he is set up for life. Would you take 5 years, $85 million with $60 mil guaranteed now, or play on the tag next year, pray you don't get injured and hope for a 5 year, $110 million, $80 mil guaranteed next year vs possibility of getting injured and having to settle for a 1 year $10 million prove it 2nd contract. I'm sure that's where the discussions are going to be.

Im paying horn and not giving a F. 

[BombzAway]

They're gonna pay him and his one season of motivation to actually play will be out the window...

[pantherclaw]

His injuries have been unfortunate.  

Most of the time, they don't affect contract negotiations.  

Simple supply and demand. 

He will get paid. 

He is one of the BEST players we have on defense.  He is also a leader. 

We DON'T have the draft picks available to replace him, should we let him go. 

His value to the team is higher than most in this thread are willing to admit. 

[pantherclaw]

2 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

With his injury history, he's definitely someone you have to consider letting play out his tag if his agent is being unreasonable. You can't pay him top tier corner money and hope he can actually stay healthy for 4-5 years. The reality is, we can afford to retag him next year if he has another strong, healthy year and leverage that into a new contract in 2026. At least then, if he's proven two consecutive elite, healthy seasons, you don't really worry as much with paying top tier money.

I have to think Horn also realizes if he is injured again next year, he loses his chance of ever seeing a big 2nd contract. If we push the guarantees, maybe he lives with sacrificing $20 million or so to ensure he is set up for life. Would you take 5 years, $85 million with $60 mil guaranteed now, or play on the tag next year, pray you don't get injured and hope for a 5 year, $110 million, $80 mil guaranteed next year vs possibility of getting injured and having to settle for a 1 year $10 million prove it 2nd contract. I'm sure that's where the discussions are going to be.

Playing out on a tag will only increase his value, unless the team has no intentions of actually keeping him. 

[BeenPounding]

3 hours ago, outlaw4 said:

I've generally been more of a fan of putting money toward the front seven. Let them disrupt the play before the corners have to get involved. Unfortunately, we're so far away from being in that scenario.

 

2 hours ago, Seltzer said:

He's going to get something comparable to Surtain.

This team can't preach culture and not resign guys like him & Chuba.

Team has already indicated they're going to do it. Horn is absolutely a difference maker

You need to invest at all levels of your defense so you can have draft picks develop.  Brown / Robinson are good investments at one level.  If Wallace makes a jump we could be solid at LB with an opportunity to draft a solid payer next to him.  Clowney and Wonnum aren't terrible at the EDGE for 20M combined.  Perfect opportunity to draft at that position.  Having Horn locked up on one side, and hopefully we can pay Mike Jackson we are good.  WHEN he resigns, hopefully we can keep him on the books for 12.5 million (2025).  I doubt a new contract would be that cheap.  Safety is a huge hole.  We will need to sign a quality free agent.  Safety may cost us resigning one linemen, thinking BC.

After watching the ND/PSU game I'm ll in on BOTH Abdul Carter and Dani-Denis Sutton.  If Carter isn't there, I say we trade back if we can get an additional 2nd to drop back in the 1st round.