Between Canales and Morgan, who do you keep and trust moving forward

[fanpanther]

Until the panthers get a new qb its hard to decide on anyone.  If Byoung goes someplace else and does amazing yeah all panthers coaches suck.  If they succeed with a different qb then yeah young brought the entire team down.  It reminds me of panthers teams in the past its almost impossible to win with a clausen or a wienke, in fact I remember them not even using a qb just running the wildcat and the panthers played better....the panthers may be reaching that point soon. 

[woahfraze]

It may not be entirely fair, as I think Morgan has not done a terrible job and Canales is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken poo, but I think everyone has to go.  
 

Morgan has had to build a roster while trying to clean up the disaster left by Fitterer, who routinely lost tons of value with the trades he made. He oversaw incorrect talent evaluations and made poor draft selections. And then he compounded these issues by mismanaging the salary cap with extensions, free agency signing, and other contractual decisions. I can’t imagine a poorer job of GMing. You’d think he’d have succeeded in at least 1 of these 3 areas. But the end result is a roster very talent poor across the board. 
 

With Tillis in the fold, Morgan has done a decent job on getting our salary cap in better shape such that we won’t be dealing with the same dead money hell a year from now that we’ve had the past 5 years. He seems to have whiffed on Leggette. But I think he’s done decently in the draft thus far. In free agency, it’s more of a mixed bag, but it’s hard to attract free agents to play for us without spending a lot of money given how dysfunctional the team is.  So all in all, I think he’s been OK.  What it really comes down to is how much of a hand he had in drafting Bryce Young. If he really was a dissenting voice in the room, then I might be inclined to give him more runway. If not, he’s got to go. We cannot know they. Only Tepper and the others in the organization know. As an outsider, I didn’t like the idea of promoting from within when the front office had done such a poor job. So without being able to know the answer to that question, I think he should get the axe in the name of creating organizational alignment with a new coach. Because….

Canales is not it. Yes he’s hindered by a limited roster, Bryce Young included. And this is coming from someone who probably falls middle of the spectrum between Bryce apologists and Bryce haters. I think with the right coach—one who opens up the playbook, one who runs tempo, one who lets Bryce rip it, and most importantly one who has the team prepared—that Bryce could be a serviceable starter. Basically, I could see us getting the Bryce we got at the end of last year on a consistent basis, rather than getting that for a few games here and there and then losing QB play the other 2/3 to 3/4 of the time.  But Canales is not the coach that can make that happen. And while don’t want to make personnel decisions based off the sunk cost they is the trade and the number 1 pick, we should aim for a higher ceiling then that.

With such a young and limited roster with so much turnover, you can’t punt the preseason. These guys need reps together. And you have to have the team more prepared. I know the coaches can’t make the plays for the players. It’s not Canales’ fault that Leggette can’t make an easy toe drag late in the 1st half and then Bryce fumbling on a scramble, which together derailed a drive that could have kept the game close. But it’s clear that he doesn’t get the most out of his players, in terms of their execution, and he certainly does not put them in the best position to win with his play calling. The 4th and goal call and preceding plays are probably the best example of this form yesterday. 
 

I don’t want to overreact from Week 1, but it’s really a gut punch after coming into the season actually having some hope. Not of the playoffs because I expected the defense to be pretty bad still, but to see such sloppiness and regression from the offense. I really was hopeful to see an offense similar to and building off what we had last season.
 

So put me in the burn it all down camp. Hire a new GM, let him hire a coach whose football philosophies align with their own. Hire that coach from a winning organization/that’s demonstrated success. I know it’s not that simple. The Ben Johnson’s of the world don’t want to come here apparently. But Tepper’s got the money. Find the right philosophy in order to identify the right individual. And then throw the bag at them. Do whatever it takes. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there’s enough money in the world to make that happen. The franchise seems like career poison at this point. 

[Bear Hands]

Canales.

Dan was already in house before and is an extension of the prior outfit. He kept a lot of Fits staff.

Canales hasn’t inspired a ton of confidence but I think there’s some grace to give. It’s year 2. I think a shorter leash third year would be tough, but stomachable. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, Bear Hands said:

Canales.

Dan was already in house before and is an extension of the prior outfit. He kept a lot of Fits staff.

Canales hasn’t inspired a ton of confidence but I think there’s some grace to give. It’s year 2. I think a shorter leash third year would be tough, but stomachable. 

I think barring a complete collapse (3ish wins) Dan and Dave most certainly get another year but their leash would be as short as possible

[electro's horse]

7 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

On the one hand I think continuity could be positive, but I don’t know that these guys have earned it.  I think it’s probably time to start over.

Yeah but at what point is it just continuity for continuity’s sake 

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

Yeah but at what point is it just continuity for continuity’s sake 

At this point 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Yeah but at what point is it just continuity for continuity’s sake 

Also consider that the list of potential replacements at HC and GM are going to be very thin overall. Tepper is going to draw bottom of the barrel or completely unqualified candidates for the most part.

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Also consider that the list of potential replacements at HC and GM are going to be very thin overall. Tepper is going to draw bottom of the barrel or completely unqualified candidates for the most part.

We're the NFL team version of the guy that's just staying at his current job for 6 months so he doesn't have 10 roles in the last year on his resume.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, PNW_PantherMan said:

We're the NFL team version of the guy that's just staying at his current job for 6 months so he doesn't have 10 roles in the last year on his resume.

Yep. This is why having such a bad owner is pure cancer. It keeps us from improvement.

[DeAngelo Beason]

I don't see any issue with coaching on offense/head coach.  We have an utterly incompetent, incapable QB that turns the ball over every chance he gets.  I see well drawn up, well designed plays that the QB cannot execute.  We do have a coaching problem with the defense.  We aren't terribly talented on defense, but we shouldn't be THIS bad.  The players are constantly out of position.  It's insane.  That said, neither Dan Morgan or Canales are responsible for this dumpster fire of a team.  It comes down to Tepper.  He wanted to keep Evero.  He wanted Bryce Young.  Those are the two things dragging the organization down.

[electro's horse]

23 minutes ago, fanpanther said:

Until the panthers get a new qb its hard to decide on anyone.  If Byoung goes someplace else and does amazing yeah all panthers coaches suck.  If they succeed with a different qb then yeah young brought the entire team down.  It reminds me of panthers teams in the past its almost impossible to win with a clausen or a wienke, in fact I remember them not even using a qb just running the wildcat and the panthers played better....the panthers may be reaching that point soon. 

Difference being weinke and Clausen were immediately replaced when it was obvious they couldn’t play. Weinke was replaced with off the couch Rodney Peete and obviously cam replaced pickles. 

bryce has now been benched twice in two seasons, third pending, and there are still, well were until yesterday, people who think he needs more, or the team let him down, or he’ll thrive in a new environment. 

Atleast weinke was a serviceable backup. Bryce can’t even be that in this league because of height reasons unless he goes to like Arizona or San Fran, and I don’t think he’s smart enough for shanahan, frankly. 

next contract Bryce gets after Carolina will be with college gameday. 

[bandu]

this team has become such a big azz bummer 

we anyone & everyone with a brain knows Dan Morgan needs to be replaced as GM.if you currently look at the Carolina Panthers roster they are the least talented team in the NFL from top to bottom .that's not by coincidence but many years of bad descions & an inability to truly evaluate talent.

& yes I like Dan Morgan as a person & appreciate what he did as a player .it's nothing personal it's just not the right job for Dan Morgan unfortunately 

Edited 10 hours ago by bandu

[blackcat]

Morgan should have never been retained in the first place, but if things don't turn around, Morgan, Canales, and BY should be gone next year.

[Sloth]

Ideally, we’d purge. Hire a new GM, let them hire their coach, replace the scouts finally, let the new coach draft their QB. That puts everything on a synced timeline and lets us actually start digging out.

What we are probably going to do is get rid of Young, keep Dan and Dave and draft a QB. Then we’ll drop Dave a year or two into the new QBs contract. Then rinse and repeat with coaching and QBs misaligned.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Sloth