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How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

Jackson113.2

By Jackson113.2,
in Carolina Panthers

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TLGPanthersFan Grand Master

TLGPanthersFan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, cranky said:

Everyone can hate all they want, but Bryce will be here next year. The draft isn't good enough to go after anyone and I don't know of any QB that will be available that will turn the Panthers in a playoff contender. Do not be surprised when they sign him to his 5th year option.

Wouldn’t be the first time out front office did something stupid. 
He still shouldn’t go into 2026 as the de facto starter. 
We’ve already see what happens when he plays well and the FO thinks he has turned a corner. 
You get most of this season. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Posted
2 hours ago, cranky said:

Unlike most of you, I do not assume the FO thinks he is beyond repair. 

For the first time since 2017 the Panthers have a chance to be in the playoffs. One more game will tie them for the most wins since 2018, 2 more wins will put them at 8 wins - the most in 8 years. 

Hate all you want but a big part of that success has come from Bryce. He got them in the hole with Miami but he got them out of it as well and was a big part of that win. Against Dallas, he played very well throughout the game plus he converted on a 4th down in the final minutes putting them in FG range for the win. He may not have had a good game against the Packers but he did convert on two 3rd down conversions in the final minutes to help seal the win and of course the Falcons game was his best yet.

Tepper likes him and they have a huge investment in him as well. You don't just throw that away unless you have something concrete lined up behind him - which I just don't see.

 

I mean if you look at our wins, he factually hasn’t been a big reason as to why we have won most of them.  He has a been a big reason we have lost in most our losses

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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11 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean if you look at our wins, he factually hasn’t been a big reason as to why we have won most of them.  He has a been a big reason we have lost in most our losses

In basically every win but Atlanta he's had 2-3 plays that were a big deal but he also was part of why we needed those 2-3 plays instead of just cruising.

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strato Grand Master

strato

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10 hours ago, cranky said:

Against Miami, the Panthers were behind by 17 in the 2nd quarter facing a 4th - 5. Young completed a 21 yard pass and they went on to score 7 on that drive. Then in the 4th, down by 4, they faced a 4th - 5 and again, he completed a 17 yard pass and they went onto score a TD for the win. He also accounted for 2 of the 3 TD's. 

As I said, he got them in that mess and no doubt, Rico gets credit as well, but missing on either of those 4th down conversions hands the ball over and results in 1 or 2 less TD's giving them a loss.

As you said though, that's just a small quibble. The real question is how does the FO see it? 

I am guessing they see it as something to build on. I think most peope here see it as a total loss and fully expect the FO to see it that way as well. Time will tell.

 

What you credit him for were good plays.  I refer you to the thoughts of another QB out there being tasked with that situation. Were they plays only he could make because of a unique skill set or ability, compared to another QB? Is it possible someone else of marginal NFL skill level might have made those completions? 
This is the thing.
You might reply that his intangibles come into play, his clutchness for example. I am saying it is fair to wonder if maybe another QB converts on third down and we don’t need a 4th down conversion. Or another guy makes the same throws and the train keeps rolling. Stuff like that. Where do you draw those lines?

And if you don’t get a clear answer of Bryce could do that and another guy similar in skill set or maybe with a better arm could not, then do you pay him huge multiples of millions?

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cranky Proficient

cranky

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2 hours ago, strato said:

What you credit him for were good plays.  I refer you to the thoughts of another QB out there being tasked with that situation. Were they plays only he could make because of a unique skill set or ability, compared to another QB? Is it possible someone else of marginal NFL skill level might have made those completions? 
This is the thing.
You might reply that his intangibles come into play, his clutchness for example. I am saying it is fair to wonder if maybe another QB converts on third down and we don’t need a 4th down conversion. Or another guy makes the same throws and the train keeps rolling. Stuff like that. Where do you draw those lines?

And if you don’t get a clear answer of Bryce could do that and another guy similar in skill set or maybe with a better arm could not, then do you pay him huge multiples of millions?

All I can say is the Panthers have gone for it on 4th downs more than any other team this year - 27 times - and have converted 67% of them. The next two are the Giants and Lions @ 25 and 23 attempts converting 52% and 56% respectively. So Bryce/Panthers are converting at a higher rate than Geoff/Lions. The only teams with at least 20 attempts doing better than the Panthers are the Chiefs (76%) and Colts (81%) - I looked up the Colts and the majority of theirs comes from rushing.

So basiclly Young is between Geoff and Mahommes on 4th down completion efficiency. If you are wondering if they are having to go or it because of poor third downs numbers, they are converting 37% on third downs which is about average so it really isn't that. 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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1 minute ago, cranky said:

All I can say is the Panthers have gone for it on 4th downs more than any other team this year - 27 times - and have converted 67% of them. The next two are the Giants and Lions @ 25 and 23 attempts converting 52% and 56% respectively. So Bryce/Panthers are converting at a higher rate than Geoff/Lions. The only teams with at least 20 attempts doing better than the Panthers are the Chiefs (76%) and Colts (81%) - I looked up the Colts and the majority of theirs comes from rushing.

So basiclly Young is between Geoff and Mahommes on 4th down completion efficiency. If you are wondering if they are having to go or it because of poor third downs numbers, they are converting 37% on third downs which is about average so it really isn't that. 

I don't think we need to constantly try to put Bryce above the best QBs in the league by twisting stats... I mean especially when it comes to 4th down passing where splits exist for that. But also this is just ignoring so much. 

1) Panthers are 24th in the league in 3rd down efficiency, which is a bit lower than average. 

2) Goff has a higher QB rating on 4th down than Bryce Young does this year, same with Mahomes.  Fwiw, Bryce for his career is similar on 1st and 4th down.

4) One reason we are effective on 4th down is our rushing game, even when it isn't utilized. 

5) Bryce is better when the pressure is on than when it isn't, that's for sure, but one reason we have to go for it on 4th so much is that our scoring offense is not good (28th in the NFL) so we are having to eke out every possible point.

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ImfromClayton Community Regular

ImfromClayton

Posted
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This argument takes nuance, but I see both sides of it. 

Bryce's good games, he's one of the best in the league, without a question. Lately, his really good games have been few and far between, though we are riding on a career best day last week.

His bad games are not NFL quality. Hard to argue that as well. 

He reminds me of Cam Newton in one way. They are both such statistical anomalies that evaluating them can be extremely difficult. QB roulette is absolutely no path to success. Furthermore, we have literally watched our franchise recently let 3 QBs go that left and proved they could still do it at a high level. I definitely give Bryce this season, and probably next season. 

If Bryce can be the good version of Bryce more consistently it's crazy to let him walk. With the inconsistencies too, I think we could probably get a team friendly deal. If he can't bring next year's roster to the playoffs, he's not the guy, period. 

I do think Bryce is always going to be a guy that requires a quality offensive line due to his physical limitations. I think we can do it, but it's a factor to consider.  You have to account for that money, and Damien Lewis, Robert Hunt and Taylor Moton are all between 28-31. If he's our guy for the next 10 years, it does appear he's going to have a top quality #1 receiver to get the ball to. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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44 minutes ago, cranky said:

All I can say is the Panthers have gone for it on 4th downs more than any other team this year - 27 times - and have converted 67% of them. The next two are the Giants and Lions @ 25 and 23 attempts converting 52% and 56% respectively. So Bryce/Panthers are converting at a higher rate than Geoff/Lions. The only teams with at least 20 attempts doing better than the Panthers are the Chiefs (76%) and Colts (81%) - I looked up the Colts and the majority of theirs comes from rushing.

So basiclly Young is between Geoff and Mahommes on 4th down completion efficiency. If you are wondering if they are having to go or it because of poor third downs numbers, they are converting 37% on third downs which is about average so it really isn't that. 

Bryce is also a reason why the forever trailing Panthers are having to go for it on 4th down so much.   Think the math is going to math there.  The more you go for it, the healthier the %is going to look IMO.  Folks that rarely go for it can sort of trend oddly high or low sometimes. 

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    • Bear Hands
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By Bear Hands · Posted

      I don't understand the tone, I gave you my ranking, that's it.  And yes, I still view Lawrence and Kyler are still ahead, in my opinion, which doesn't really mean much lol.  What's this have to do with being a fan ffs? I will say, they are at the end of the list/the more arguable/debatable guys.  So open to debate but it seems you're going straight to the "you're not a fan" debate.  Which is super annoying. Maybe I'd agree Bryce could be ~19-20 on the list if the argument was laid out instead.  His Atlanta game was better than anything they have done in recent memory, but he's had like 10 other games this season.   He is way more inconsistent in my view, due to a few factors... Shotty footwork - he has a shallow lazy step back from gun that puts an OL in an impossible place.  Goes on his toes wayyy to much more my liking. Poor upper body mechanics.  His upper body remains parallel to the LOS and has to perform that rapid twitch/turn motion to get in stance His shallow drops also create a lack of sight lines so he can't layer throws well He's had poor pocket presence - not last week, but it's been a thing   Pure traits standpoint Arm strength is mediocre Mobility is mediocre - can outrun at times but quicker IDLs can catch him Accuracy is a range due to his inconsistency - can be above average to very poor.  His career so far has been pretty bad with intermediates (which again was not the case against ATL) Ball Security Way too sensitive to fumbling Has exhibited very poor decision making, especially in first halves that put the team behind This all does NOT take away that he had a GREAT performance against ATL.  He was able to extend plays, found guys post-route in stride, the XL throw in Q3 was fantastic, a few of the Coker crossers were beauts.  There's no disputing that.   But yeah, in totality, it hasn't looked good but he absolutely cooked last week. Outside of that, he's only had 5 other 250 yard passing games in his entire career.  He stalls on drives, makes annoying turnovers, doesn't see the right guys.  It's okay to both say that and the fact that he balled tf out last week.  I hope he continues so we get better and maybe can make some noise.  Big test on Monday.  
    • mrcompletely11
      This Bryce Guy (General BY Discussion)

      By mrcompletely11 · Posted

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    • cranky
      Only team with a winning record…

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      Actually that part abuot the Bears is not my opnion. I was watching some show and they were talking about how lucky the Bears have been this year. That's the only reason I brought it up.
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