Why does Bryce get the blame?

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just now, Joe Bear said:

Wasn’t good enough to tackle Tyler Shough once. I don’t pin the last one on him. The first one yeah, the last one was on the defense. 

The defense that's near last in cap allocation and still keeps the team in the game every week.  Sure.

[strato]

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Fact is this is a .500 team without a QB.  I'd say that supporting cast is good enough.

All this great stuff he has done, how often does he do it?  I have it at three or four games out of 14 where he was very good and then you get a drive here or a series there where there are some good things.

Here is the gaslight part: everyone has put him on a curve with his first year the baseline, neglecting to understand how bad he was then. Even if he comes back twice as good, where does that really leave him? 25th ranked or thereabouts.  
 

He had so far to go, and still does, it is a Major ‘settle’ to accept his play as worthy of giving him our future. 
You want to settle when the Bucs have Mayfield, and the Saints have overtaken us at QB? We will be third in the division at QB. That is good enough for y’all?  

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Because we've been gaslit for 3 years by every little thing he does that isn't terrible.  That's why.  Its pretty simple.

So let’s do the reverse? Make everyone agree everything he does is a disaster? I also think the whole “gaslighting” is on the eye of the beholder. It went from he can’t avoid one single sack countered with he actually did that well Sunday (with data backing it) to a little breakdown of why he is so bad. People are going to have different opinions. I’m also not going to pretend this wasn’t happening Day one with this little QB. 

[*FreeFua*]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The defense that's near last in cap allocation and still keeps the team in the game every week.  Sure.

The Panthers are 9th in cap spent on offense this year. 

However next season is already a different story 

The Panthers as it stands right now will be 18th in cap spent on offense and 8th in cap spent on defense 

The Panthers are currently set to spend more on defense next year than they are on offense this season

Guys like Jaycee and Moehrig cap numbers take a big jump. Wharton has a massive cap hit

 

Jaycee Moehrig and Wharton in 2025

The same 3 in 2026

So this same defense as it stands right now will cost more in 2026 than this offense does right now…

Got anything else you want to try?

[frankw]

This is the same place that has ridiculed and blasted Caleb Williams at every opportunity he has his team sitting at 10-4 in the same NFC that the Panthers are competing in. And their division in the NFC North is as or more competitive as our division. Yet from the same people who have very high standards for Williams we get every excuse imaginable for the smallest starting QB in the league even when he and his team continue to disappoint when the pressure is on.

You lot aren't any less inconsistent than anyone else.

[frankw]

The same folks crying about the OL right now were crying about it in 2023 too. We have tied up over 100 million dollars in two interior olinemen alone and we have Taylor Moton inked to a recent extension. We've invested multiple first and second round picks in the offense. We hired an offensive minded head coach. This is an offensive team. The offense needs to produce or people need to be replaced.

Edited 6 hours ago by frankw

[CRA]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Again I’m good if we move on. Mentioned it numerous times. The problem is anything positive is met with people freaking out. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it so just sit back and see what happens. We are allowed to mention if a player good or bad has a good game or did something well. I mean I will continue to do so and certain people are just going to have to accept it. 

People know we are owned by David Tepper.  Think it boils down to them/us merely wanting Tepper to not feel there is apathetic or even support for him in the fanbase for him to justifying doing something dumb in the very near future.  Simple as that. 

[mrcompletely11]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

That guy still would argue today he was totally right about Fitterer and all his other trainwreck stances.  I still love his current stance that the horrific Saints backfield and a washed Kamara is basically the Panthers backfield lol.  

Damn I just realized the psychopath was on here at 2am trying to argue with folks.  

[SmokinwithWilly]

43 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

The Panthers are 9th in cap spent on offense this year. 

However next season is already a different story 

The Panthers as it stands right now will be 18th in cap spent on offense and 8th in cap spent on defense 

The Panthers are currently set to spend more on defense next year than they are on offense this season

Guys like Jaycee and Moehrig cap numbers take a big jump. Wharton has a massive cap hit

 

Jaycee Moehrig and Wharton in 2025

The same 3 in 2026

So this same defense as it stands right now will cost more in 2026 than this offense does right now…

Got anything else you want to try?

You know why we've spent so much in FA on defensive contracts for next year? Could have something to do with next to nothing spent in the draft on defense until this year. When you don't draft anyone on defense you have to pay for them. 

You also have 2 1st round WRs and your QB on rookie contracts for next to nothing against the offensive cap for their position and a LT that hasn't been paid his top 5 contract yet.  

Care to try anything else? 

Edited 6 hours ago by SmokinwithWilly

[strato]

2 hours ago, Joe Bear said:

Wasn’t good enough to tackle Tyler Shough once. I don’t pin the last one on him. The first one yeah, the last one was on the defense. 

Right. And people are crying about the play calling. And about gaslighting. 

Yet here we are in a gaslight thread that claims we blamed Bryce Young for the loss. 
 

I mean, if you ran a poll, you would have probably fewer than 10% blaming Bryce for Sunday’s loss. 

Edited 6 hours ago by strato

[*FreeFua*]

33 minutes ago, frankw said:

The same folks crying about the OL right now were crying about it in 2023 too. We have tied up over 100 million dollars in two interior olinemen alone and we have Taylor Moton inked to a recent extension. We've invested multiple first and second round picks in the offense. We hired an offensive minded head coach. This is an offensive team. The offense needs to produce or people need to be replaced.

Every year from 2013-2018 we spent more money on offense than we did on defense 

Handed out a 5 year 55 million dollar deal (30gtd) for a left tackle 

As far as draft picks…

From 2011-2018

Two 2nd rounders, one 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders on OL

Two 1st rounders on WR’s

Two 2nd rounders on WR’s

A top 10 pick (1st round) on a RB/WR

2011-2018… 3 winning seasons 

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

You know why we've spent so much in FA on defensive contracts for next year? Could have something to do with next to nothing spent in the draft on defense until this year. When you don't draft anyone on defense you have to pay for them. 

Care to try anything else? 

From 2023 (the year we drafted Bryce) to this year…

Draft picks spent on offense: 10

Draft picks spent on defense: 10

 

From 2020 - 2022 

Picks spent on offense: 9 

Picks spent on defense: 14

special teams: 1

 

So last 6 drafts that’s 

19 picks on offense

24 picks on defense

1 pick on special teams  

 

lol tough look

 

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Joe Bear said:

Wasn’t good enough to tackle Tyler Shough once. I don’t pin the last one on him. The first one yeah, the last one was on the defense. 

Last several years have been about building up the O to the detriment of the defense.  And on a his version of a good day our QB tops out at about 170 pass yards…..and can’t lead the O over 17 points vs a bad team.

big picture, the Saints loss wasn’t a defensive failure.  

[frankw]

16 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Every year from 2013-2018 we spent more money on offense than we did on defense 

Handed out a 5 year 55 million dollar deal (30gtd) for a left tackle 

As far as draft picks…

From 2011-2018

Two 2nd rounders, one 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders on OL

Two 1st rounders on WR’s

Two 2nd rounders on WR’s

A top 10 pick (1st round) on a RB/WR

2011-2018… 3 winning seasons 

From 2023 (the year we drafted Bryce) to this year…

Draft picks spent on offense: 10

Draft picks spent on defense: 10

 

From 2020 - 2022 

Picks spent on offense: 9 

Picks spent on defense: 14

special teams: 1

 

So last 6 drafts that’s 

19 picks on offense

24 picks on defense

1 pick on special teams  

 

lol tough look

 

This is the second time someone has thrown Matt Kalil in my face and I am just flabbergasted anyone thinks that is some kind of gotcha. That was always a very stupid decision and a panic move fully created by Dave Gettleman's lack of ability to build an OL through the draft despite his entire persona revolving around hog mollies.

And while throwing Matt Kalil in my face you wholly omit the fact that Cam Newton had this team competing in the division with Byron Bell on his left and Nate Chandler on his right. Then we added Amini Silatolu for good measure.

Is there a specific reason you're wanting to go back 15 years now? Suddenly you don't want to discuss the amount of money and draft capital we have tied up in this offense present day?

If you want to take a stroll down memory lane let's talk turkey.

From 1998 to 2013 the Panthers never selected a first round WR in any draft. That's none in fifteen years. FIFTEEN YEARS.

Then after drafting Kelvin Benjamin we didn't draft another WR in the first round until 2018. 

We have drafted first round WR's in back to back drafts in 2024 and 2025 including at 8th overall for the first time in franchise history.

We left the linebacker room to be a complete empty void in order to continue to build up this offense.

If you truly see any parallels with our historic investment in the offense present day to past teams you might as well be Mr. Magoo. This was always primarily a defensive team identity wise for the better part of 2 decades and any Panthers fan worth their salt knows this. Why I'm having to argue this with you is absurd.

Edited 5 hours ago by frankw

[SmokinwithWilly]

9 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Every year from 2013-2018 we spent more money on offense than we did on defense 

Handed out a 5 year 55 million dollar deal (30gtd) for a left tackle 

As far as draft picks…

From 2011-2018

Two 2nd rounders, one 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders on OL

Two 1st rounders on WR’s

Two 2nd rounders on WR’s

A top 10 pick (1st round) on a RB/WR

2011-2018… 3 winning seasons 

From 2023 (the year we drafted Bryce) to this year…

Draft picks spent on offense: 10

Draft picks spent on defense: 10

 

From 2020 - 2022 

Picks spent on offense: 9 

Picks spent on defense: 14

special teams: 1

 

So last 6 drafts that’s 

19 picks on offense

24 picks on defense

1 pick on special teams  

 

lol tough look

 

So from 20-22 of those 14 picks on defense, how many are still on the team. 2. Two whole picks. 

2023

2 defensive picks in the 3rd and 5th rounds. Neither on the team. 

2024. 2 and 1 on the PS. 3rd, 5th, 6th and 7th, round picks used. 

2025. 2,3,4 and 5 spent on defense. 

The entirety of what we've spent on defense doesn't even equal the one pick we used on Tet in trade value chart for draft pick exchange. 

You could argue we spent 30 draft picks on defense but if they were all in the seventh round, the value of those picks is next to nothing in terms of contribution. Day 3 picks rarely make NFL squads. They only make the Panthers because our roster is so threadbare as it is. 

Again, we've spent next to nothing on defense in terms of value picks on defense. If you're going to argue we've spent more on defense than we have on offense you're going to have to use a better argument than this.