PFF Best Deep Ball Thrower Award

[ForJimmy]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I mean, you can only go so far with the propping up. When a guy's numbers are as bad overall as Bryce's you have to try to find specific niches to sell. It's just funny that they're honing in on where he's probably weakest to try to prop him up. Whether it's a pro-Bryce conspiracy or not, it echos my chief complaint about PFF's analysis for years. When your purely statistical analysis badly skews from the eye test of actually watching the games, it should be screaming at you that you need to modify your system not double down on it. PFF is awesome at compiling stats but their grade systems are highly flawed and they never seem to try to improve them.

Yeah I'd lean towards it just being a flawed stat that relies too much on opinions vs strict data.  I've always thought deep passes were more of a WR stat anyway.  Most QBs, (even Bryce). can get the ball out 20 plus yards. Arm strength really shows up for players like Mahomes and Allen when they can make these off balance throws while evading pressure that still come out as bullets on the money.  

[LinvilleGorge]

22 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah I'd lean towards it just being a flawed stat that relies too much on opinions vs strict data.  I've always thought deep passes were more of a WR stat anyway.  Most QBs, (even Bryce). can get the ball out 20 plus yards. Arm strength really shows up for players like Mahomes and Allen when they can make these off balance throws while evading pressure that still come out as bullets on the money.  

That's what sold me on Burrow in college. You could tell he didn't have a big arm by NFL standards but what set hin apart was that he can throw the same ball whether he's standing in a clean pocket or running for his life. There's seemingly no drop off in velocity or accuracy.

[ForJimmy]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's what sold me on Burrow in college. You could tell he didn't have a big arm by NFL standards but what set hin apart was that he can throw the same ball whether he's standing in a clean pocket or running for his life. There's seemingly no drop off in velocity or accuracy.

He even changed his motion after his rookie year to add more velocity in his throws. Seems to be a pretty smart QB who is going to figure things out. 

[Navy_football]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Thats not what im saying. The allure of getting on that Tepper payroll does.

Gotcha, I see what you're saying. But I'd think they'd be trying to get on another team's payroll instead of Carolina's. If this is a new stat, then I could agree. If this is an existing calculation that hasn't changed its variables, then my point still stands. And they likely wouldn't rate him so low on other calculations. 

[MechaZain]

2 hours ago, Navy_football said:

This is what I mean. I am not some huge BY fan. I honestly don't look at QBs the way a lot of you guys do. Right or wrong, I've always looked at them as just another cog in the machine. Didn't want BY or even a trade up for a QB in 2023. We saw in the Super Bowl how important the rest of the team is on any given Sunday.

Now... so PFF, who has no reason to prop up BY, says he's first in 2 stat lines and Panthers "fans" are arguing why it's either wrong or a made up stat just to make BY look good. Even though they have multiple stat lines where he's literally last in. Like 32nd in the NFL. Some he's even lower than 32. Take a step back. Try to objectively self analyze. This is just not sensible. 

Same thing I see with other teams' fans and their QBs though. We analyze every single throw on every single play. For every other QB, most here are only using highlights to judge. Makes a difference. We saw Stafford miss throws when they played Carolina - both games. We saw Love throw crap up when they played Carolina. We saw Dak miss throws when they played Carolina - and Pickens was putting on a SHOW. We saw Josh Allen win a game with 163 yards passing against Carolina, but if BY does it he's crap and can't pass for 200 yards. Gents... come on. 

The only source for Bryce's deep attempts I can find anywhere is Grok in reply to the original tweet:

Bryce Young's approx. 46-50 deep pass attempts (20+ yards) in 2025 ranked among the lowest for starting QBs, around 28th-30th overall per PFF and fan analyses, with leaders like Matthew Stafford and Dak Prescott exceeding 70. His efficiency led the league despite lower volume.

https://x.com/grok/status/2022067774499987744

So I ask again, who would you say was the best deep ball thrower of the season? Bryce at 99.7% with some of the fewest attempts in the league, or the league leader in attempts just below him at 98.7%? Because PFF crowned Bryce and conveniently left out the context that would dispute their claim.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He even changed his motion after his rookie year to add more velocity in his throws. Seems to be a pretty smart QB who is going to figure things out. 

I just think he's tired of getting the hell beat out if him behind trash tier OLs. Hard to blame him for that. At some point, I think he's either going to retire early or force his way out of there if they don't get it fixed.

[strato]

24 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He even changed his motion after his rookie year to add more velocity in his throws. Seems to be a pretty smart QB who is going to figure things out. 

That is counter to my logic processor. We talking footwork, leg drive, I get it. If he is just talking about arm motion, I don’t get it. 
 

I want to know more because we have a guy that needs to know about this more velocity patch. 
 

Counter intuitive to what I always thought.  I can see making a more efficient motion to save wear and tear, get a quicker release, that kind of stuff. I wasn’t aware there was a way to get more velocity outside of having your base straight and in synch. 
 

I am not saying it’s wrong just that I am surprised.
I don’t know enough to be a lot skeptical, but I’m maybe a little skeptical.

[strato]

19 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

The only source for Bryce's deep attempts I can find anywhere is Grok in reply to the original tweet:

Bryce Young's approx. 46-50 deep pass attempts (20+ yards) in 2025 ranked among the lowest for starting QBs, around 28th-30th overall per PFF and fan analyses, with leaders like Matthew Stafford and Dak Prescott exceeding 70. His efficiency led the league despite lower volume.

https://x.com/grok/status/2022067774499987744

So I ask again, who would you say was the best deep ball thrower of the season? Bryce at 99.7% with some of the fewest attempts in the league, or the league leader in attempts just below him at 98.7%? Because PFF crowned Bryce and conveniently left out the context that would dispute their claim.

 

I would put Stafford in there for sure. If I eyeballed the best. It isn’t really something I follow league wide. It got my attention here because we were so downfield averse. And just off of my impressions from watching, that has been the case starting in 2023. It stood out like a sore thumb to me. 
 

As far as why Bryce rates so high, off so relatively few attempts? The simple intuitive answer would be something like, he throws them when they are wide ass open, coverage is blown, doesn’t take risks, that sort of thing.
I have seen some nice throws but is very little wow in it outside of a handful. It is kind of a mystery. 

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

The only source for Bryce's deep attempts I can find anywhere is Grok in reply to the original tweet:

Bryce Young's approx. 46-50 deep pass attempts (20+ yards) in 2025 ranked among the lowest for starting QBs, around 28th-30th overall per PFF and fan analyses, with leaders like Matthew Stafford and Dak Prescott exceeding 70. His efficiency led the league despite lower volume.

https://x.com/grok/status/2022067774499987744

So I ask again, who would you say was the best deep ball thrower of the season? Bryce at 99.7% with some of the fewest attempts in the league, or the league leader in attempts just below him at 98.7%? Because PFF crowned Bryce and conveniently left out the context that would dispute their claim.

 

I'm guessing it's just their rating on throws that deep.  So volume wouldn't really matter.  This is why it's a flawed stat, but also any mistake is going to weigh heavier on lower volume.

[ForJimmy]

20 minutes ago, strato said:

That is counter to my logic processor. We talking footwork, leg drive, I get it. If he is just talking about arm motion, I don’t get it. 
 

I want to know more because we have a guy that needs to know about this more velocity patch. 
 

Counter intuitive to what I always thought.  I can see making a more efficient motion to save wear and tear, get a quicker release, that kind of stuff. I wasn’t aware there was a way to get more velocity outside of having your base straight and in synch. 
 

I am not saying it’s wrong just that I am surprised.
I don’t know enough to be a lot skeptical, but I’m maybe a little skeptical.

https://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/33304/how-joe-burrows-improved-velocity-could-have-bengals-thinking-playoffs

There is the article talking about him increasing his velocity.  Apparently he was the 3rd worst starting QB at deep passes his rookie year.  I'd also argue that drafting Chase greatly helped his deep ball (again I think it's more of a WR stat).  He did appear to increase the speed in which the ball was coming out by tweaking a few things.  You'd think OSU or LSU would have tried this with him in college...

[strato]

13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/33304/how-joe-burrows-improved-velocity-could-have-bengals-thinking-playoffs

There is the article talking about him increasing his velocity.  Apparently he was the 3rd worst starting QB at deep passes his rookie year.  I'd also argue that drafting Chase greatly helped his deep ball (again I think it's more of a WR stat).  He did appear to increase the speed in which the ball was coming out by tweaking a few things.  You'd think OSU or LSU would have tried this with him in college...

That is interesting thanks. 

[MHS831]