It is time to Consider the Likelihood of WR at #19

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Certainly it's about value. But it's also going to end up being a situation of in our draft slot there is surely going to be a few really solid prospects and maybe even a great one that might slip through if teams go on a run on one or two specific positions. And if we don't go BPA in that instance especially if it's a highly touted defensive prospect and we elect to throw another dart at receiver because we gave up a haul to draft the smallest starting QB in the NFL we would deserve to be ridiculed.

well said

 

Give me a starting high rated starting safety every day of the week over a dude like KC

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

I disagree. Bringing a receiver in here that's actually a legitimate, consistent playmaker, a threat to to take it to the house on any given play, including returning if he has that skill set, from one perspective is exactly what we need. Being that first rounders increase the likelihood of actually realizing what it is we're desiring then I don't have any problem with it. Half-stepping won't diversify the room, or turn Coker into more than he really is which is a good-sized possession guy.

Nobody is saying we don't need it, just that we have bigger needs elsewhere, and that type of WR is actually something that is often found in the mid rounds, you just have to scout and evaluate properly.

Here's another way of looking at why WR in the 1st shouldn't even be considered an option.

Looking only at players currently on the team, what position group would you feel strongest about 4 years from now?

I'm not sure there is a better answer there than WR, as you have to think T-Mac is our best player on the team in 4 years (Brown is the only current player I think there is even an argument to be made over T-Mac there), with Coker not far behind.

Our OL is too old to be considered, my opinions on Bryce is well known, Hubbard will be done by then and the rest of the RB is an unknown, Off-ball LB is maybe our biggest need, we only have 1 legit safety, it's certainly not TE, and our 2nd best CB right now will be 33 by then.  

Brown should still be a beast as he'll only be 31, but nobody else on the DL projects to be that good in 4 years. 

Edge rusher with Phillips, Scourton, and Princely is probably the only other possible answer than WR.

So yes, that fast/shifty type of WR is 100% a need of ours, but we have so many other bigger needs both in the immediate and future, that to me, taking a WR in the 1st for the 3rd year in a row and having hit on another WR in the same time frame, just makes zero sense both currently and looking into the future.

Edited April 10 by tukafan21

[firefox1234]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Yeah, nobody said it was a given, but the type of WR they are looking at in relation to where they expect to be drafted--can you find a position where we KNOW the Panthers have shown extended interest in three or more players who are expected to be drafted in round 1 at one specific position?  If you can, please post it for us to discuss.   I could not find one.

This is all about reading and anticipating what they might do--based on very limited information.  It is also to throw things out there to see who has an open mind or a closed mind.  Of course, this is speculative--it is not even what I want, to be honest.

The only other position group I could think of is ILB since Dan was there for Rodriguez and Hill Jr. pro days in Texas. It’s one of the reasons I get the feeling ILB could be the pick at 19.

[TD alt]

23 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Nobody is saying we don't need it, just that we have bigger needs elsewhere, and that type of WR is actually something that is often found in the mid rounds, you just have to scout and evaluate properly.

Here's another way of looking at why WR in the 1st shouldn't even be considered an option.

Looking only at players currently on the team, what position group would you feel strongest about 4 years from now?

I'm not sure there is a better answer there than WR, as you have to think T-Mac is our best player on the team in 4 years (Brown is the only current player I think there is even an argument to be made over T-Mac there), with Coker not far behind.

Our OL is too old to be considered, my opinions on Bryce is well known, Hubbard will be done by then and the rest of the RB is an unknown, Off-ball LB is maybe our biggest need, we only have 1 legit safety, it's certainly not TE, and our 2nd best CB right now will be 33 by then.  

Brown should still be a beast as he'll only be 31, but nobody else on the DL projects to be that good in 4 years. 

Edge rusher with Phillips, Scourton, and Princely is probably the only other possible answer than WR.

So yes, that fast/shifty type of WR is 100% a need of ours, but we have so many other bigger needs both in the immediate and future, that to me, taking a WR in the 1st for the 3rd year in a row and having hit on another WR in the same time frame, just makes zero sense both currently and looking into the future.

Why four years? 

The fact is is that we only have one legit WR right now. One! The rest are a hurt UDFA and a room full of JAGs. Moreover not one TE even has to be in the league in four years, and certainly not anything but "guys." If Icky can come back anything around confidently and we can keep at least a couple more, then we at least have more than just guys across the line. 

I will never agree with the suggestion that we can just get a fast shifty receiver anywhere. That's not that high of a bar. We need a play maker. 

Scouting goes all ways. If you scout well, you can find a gem or two at any position in theory. We have done it for the OL before.

 

[rebelrouser]

3 hours ago, TD alt said:

3 hours ago, rebelrouser said:

We can add a Z WR later than the first round.  

That can be said of any position.

Ok, we can add a good Z WR later than the first round. WR is very deep this year. Other positions like DL and OT not so much. 

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, TD alt said:

Why four years? 

The fact is is that we only have one legit WR right now. One! The rest are a hurt UDFA and a room full of JAGs. Moreover not one TE even has to be in the league in four years, and certainly not anything but "guys." If Icky can come back anything around confidently and we can keep at least a couple more, then we at least have more than just guys across the line. 

I will never agree with the suggestion that we can just get a fast shifty receiver anywhere. That's not that high of a bar. We need a play maker. 

Scouting goes all ways. If you scout well, you can find a gem or two at any position in theory. We have done it for the OL before.

 

A few reasons, first being that's the length of rookie contracts (not counting the 5th year option for 1st roudners).  Also trying to go 5+ years out feels long and 3 or less feels too short for there to be all too much of a change.

And you still seem to be arguing for this as if it's the only way to get a WR in that mold and that we don't have bigger problems than WR right now.  Just because we need one thing, doesn't mean bigger needs should be ignored to fill that one, especially when that position already has one of our best players on the team.

Again, yes, we need that type of WR, but we have other bigger and more pressing needs.

It's also wildly unfair to say we have 1 WR right now, I think Coker has shown enough to be considered a solid WR moving forward with how he finished the season.

[jfra78]

I was against WR in the 1st, but I can see the appeal now that Tukafan is against it.  He is a tmac fan 1st and Panther fan 2nd

[tukafan21]

31 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I was against WR in the 1st, but I can see the appeal now that Tukafan is against it.  He is a tmac fan 1st and Panther fan 2nd

You really think I don’t want us to use a late 1st round pick on a WR because of my T-Mac fandom?

Despite my numerous and detailed explanations of why I think we both need another WR but why using our 1st rounder on it is a terrible idea when you think about it beyond just this next season’s needs?

Disagree if you’d like, but have legitimate reasons, not thinking I’m afraid of the reigning OROY losing catches to the 5th best WR in this draft, just an absurd take.

Edited April 10 by tukafan21

[CarolinaReaper]

Hot take: Carolina will not pick at #19

[TheSpecialJuan]

27 minutes ago, CarolinaReaper said:

Hot take: Carolina will not pick at #19

Trade up huh 

[csx]

Its time to consider it? Its the only thing you have been posting about for a the last 2 weeks.

[DeAngelo Beason]

6 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Drafting a WR in the 1st only guarantees one of T-Mac, Coker, or the new draft pick has zero chance of still being on the roster 4 years from now because they can’t all be paid at the same time.

Which is why a WR in the 1st makes no sense, if we do that, I’d be pissed if we don’t also trade Coker this offseason, and I have zero interest in trading him, so………

We know T-Mac is that dude, so unless the team has serious concerns about Coker taking the next step, WR makes so sense to me in the 1st

The big payday assumes all three become bona fide stars.  Not likely. I also can say with confidence they are not drafting based on financial hypotheticals that might come up in four years.  They are drafting to build the best roster possible.   

[tukafan21]

30 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

The big payday assumes all three become bona fide stars.  Not likely. I also can say with confidence they are not drafting based on financial hypotheticals that might come up in four years.  They are drafting to build the best roster possible.   

And you think teams can build the best possible roster every season without thinking about financial implications into the future?

It's precisely what the good franchises do, they make decisions that combine what is best for the upcoming season as well as the long term implications.

The other problem with this post is that you say it only is an issue if they all become stars.  But that is exactly what you should be hoping/expecting for every 1st round pick you make, they are supposed to turn into players you sign to multiple contracts and are the cornerstone players for your franchise.

You shouldn't be drafting a player in the 1st round that you don't think should be getting a big contract in 3 or 4 years, if you don't think that's the case, then you're making the wrong selection in the 1st round (especially in the Top 20, maybe 25-32 is more questionable, but not by much).

We know T-Mac is going to be a star, if the expectation is for a WR drafted in the 1st this year is also expected to be as much, that's two huge contracts to give out in back to back years.  While at the same time, Coker has already proven to be at minimum, a great #3 in this league IMO.  It's not going to be a far leap to see him become a bona fide #2, if not even a high end #2 this upcoming season with some improvement and sustained health.

Edited April 10 by tukafan21

[tukafan21]

I'll also say this, for all the crap we give him, myself included.  If we are able to find a solid #3 WR to play in the slot and XL becomes our #4, he might actually be the best #4 WR in the league, at worst, Top 5.

I think our WR is being slept on for some reason, yes we need to add one more, but T-Mac and Coker as a 1-2 and XL as a #4 has serious potential, especially as T-Mac takes the next step to stardom this season.

I also think if he went to work this offeason, it's not out of the question to see Horn Jr step up and take over the slot role, as he might not be a complete WR right now, but he very well may have exactly what we need from that role with his speed and elusiveness.

He does have a nice complimentary set of skills to what T-Mac and Coker bring to the table, it's just a matter if he can sharpen up a few areas and get on the field more to show it (which I think is a real possibility).

Edited April 10 by tukafan21