Jenson's OTB: Panthers Source on Edwards, Clausen

[OneBadassCat]

Just getting Palmer and giving them a 4th for the #10 spot is not enough. Palmer would have a high bust and burn out factor here. He might be done, or he might get hurt in the first game. How about Palmer, the #10, and their 2nd for our first and 4th.

Hell Cincy might want a WR out of it. And at the #10 spot we may still be in position for Green or Jones.

[Swarly]

Just getting Palmer and giving them a 4th for the #10 spot is not enough. Palmer would have a high bust and burn out factor here. He might be done, or he might get hurt in the first game. How about Palmer, the #10, and their 2nd for our first and 4th.

Cincy might want a WR out of it. And at the #10 spot we may still be in position for Green of Jones.

I didn't listen to the whole thing but where are you getting the #10 spot from? I thought Bengals were drafting #4 overall?

[teeray]

The one guy thens says it would be a dream to swap picks and give a 4th. Listen to it again. that isn't what the cincy guy said

[OneBadassCat]

Oh poo I was confused with the Redskins. Yea that sounds more fair. I wouldn't give them a 3rd or 4th though. Maybe a 5th.

[panthers55]

Screw Cam. He is not even on the team. I would like to point out that, although skeptical, I hope this is correct about Clausen. I am taking the approach that Clausen and Edwards were not Fox choices, that they went over his head due to his lame duck status, that he knew they weren't drafted for him, so he resented them. There was a time during the season when Fox told reporters, "JC will be the starting QB the rest of the year." He never says something like that when a player was struggling. He was told to play Clausen.

Clausen was not groomed or even protected. He was thrown to the lions. Now, maybe he is a dud, but anyone who pronounces him dead is a quitter. Like I said earlier, Elway's rookie year was nearly identical to Clausen's, except he didn't have to play under these conditions. 47% completion rate and a 54 QB rating in 10 games as a starter. He has 2 rings and a bust in the hall today. Denver wanted him out.

First of all you can't compare stats from quarterbacks in the 80s to current ones given that the rules favor offenses so much more than now. A guy with a QB rating of 80, 25 years ago would easily be in the 90s now. For example no quarterback in 1983 including Marino, Fouts, and Montana had a rating over 100. In 2010 4 of them did.

Secondly Elway had 7 TDs his rookie year versus 14 Ints on 259 attempts. Clausen had 3 TDs and 9 Ints on 299 attempts.

Clausen had 1 TD every 100 passes versus Elway who had 1 TD every 36 passes his rookie year.

Plus Elway averaged 6.4 yards per pass, clausen a pitiful 5.2.

For what it is worth Elway got into the Hall of Fame because he had a 16 year career, won 2 Super bowls and played well his last 6 seasons. But for his first 7 or 8 years he wasn't anything special. I can see hoe Denver wasn't in love with him for quite a while.

Lets compare his rookie year to Matt Leinert's for example. Leinert completed 57% of his passes, with 11 TDs and 12 INTs for a 74 passer rating starting 11 games.

So does this mean because he was woefully worse than Leinert that he will be a complete bust. You want to bet who had better numbers between Clausen and Weinke?? Except for a slightly higher completion percentage by Clausen, Weinke was better in most categories even when you account for more attempts.

These kind of posts to justify Clausen's awful rookie year are ridiculous. For every Hall of famer who had a poor rookie year, i can show you 5 guys who were not that great who had better rookie years than Clausen.

[panthers55]

Wrong. Jensen's source said they'd want a first round pick paired with a 3rd or 4th. Swapping picks in the first and giving them a 4th would fit that scenario if Brown were willing to trade.

It's also not absolutely necessary that the whole trade be completed on draft day if the CBA is not in place. They can make a "handshake" agreement that they'll trade Palmer when they can.

I doubt they would handshake and give away picks. What if there is no football this year. Then they get the picks and we get screwed especially if Palmer gets tired of waiting or changes his mind and decides to retire. I would think we would have to have something more firm before we work a trade. I suspect we would trade down for picks but not for a player if no CBA is finalized by the draft.

[Cavscout]

I'd rather have Cam, and probably even Gabbert over Palmer. I just don't trust him long-term... The guy was a couple weeks away from having Tommy John surgery, just like Jake like 2 seasons ago. His elbow was already damaged but he elected to rest it and see how it turned out. I don't think it is going to hold up so I don't want him.

And honestly, I think Dalton has a possibility to be the best QB out of this draft.

And I hope Clausen is improving, but I REALLY hope they're not going in with the mindset that he's going to be the starter and win us games. We better address the position first and then if he has improved, let him prove it in TC and OTAs.

I agree

[CatMan72]

What do you think the odds are that particular source goes by the initials "SS"?

LOL, that's exactly what I was thinking... in fact when he mentioned his source he and Frank kind of chuckled.

Wouldn't surprise me to learn the Smitty gave the Panthers some sort of "him or me" ultimatum as it relates to Clausen being the starting QB next year.

[Mr. Scot]

That just doesn't seem like it's enough for their franchise QB. They could probably get more to be honest. I hope it's true though(your trade scenario that is). I would make that trade without hesitation.

He got the terms from a "Bengals source" which could mean anything.

Essentially, it comes down to whether or not Marvin Lewis can talk Mike Brown into making the deal. For what it's worth, Lewis is reportedly okay with just releasing him.

Wouldn't bet on that happening. Unless, of course, a team like the Panthers says "We'll swap picks with you and agree to trade you another pick or player on the condition that you release Carson and tell him we have a job offer for him."

But of course, that would be against the rules, so we would never do that, right? :D

[teeray]

That just doesn't seem like it's enough for their franchise QB. They could probably get more to be honest. I hope it's true though(your trade scenario that is). I would make that trade without hesitation.

That is bc people are misunderstanding the terms that the source gave.

It wasn't a swap of picks and a fourth round pick.

It was a first and a fourth round pick.

For some reason the hosts started talking about swapping but it will take a stand alone first round pick and a later pick like a 3rd or 4th.

Otherwise, the Bangal's would be trading Carson for essentially a 4th round pick. That ain't happening.

I don't know why those guys even started discussing swaps bc that wasn't even mentioned from his source about the price.

If you wanted to swap and get Carson it would take a swap this year, next year's first and this year's or next year's 3rd/4th.

Too high a price IMO.

[Jackofalltrades]

Jensen's source is Steve Reed.

You really quoted the entire post for a one sentence reply?

[mav1234]

Jensen's source is Steve Reed.

Why do you think that?

[Carolina Mike II]

Only way I could see this working out before the draft is if JR "KNOWS" how the CBA talks are going to end. Seems like this may be a inside look at the CBA talks in a way.

[JawnyBlaze]

That is wildly inaccurate. Swapping firsts is a huge value to them, to go from #4 up to #1 would cost them at least a 2nd and maybe a 3rd or a 2nd next year. So what we would "essentially" be trading them is 2 seconds and a 4th. Which sounds like good value for a guy they're supposedly ok with just releasing anyway.

Otherwise, the Bangal's would be trading Carson for essentially a 4th round pick. That ain't happening.