Donald and Barron hits. Clean or not clean?

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Jase said:

looked like he hit him in the chest to me.

Give me a second.  I'll find the angle from the Ram defenders back.

announcers set a false narrative while it was being watched.  Definate helmet to helmet contact. 

But given the bang bang of it was slightly more forgivable than the Donald head contact 

[Jase]

Just now, CRA said:

Give me a second.  I'll find the angle from the Ram defenders back.  It shows how brutal it was.  

okay.  IDK, I keep looking at the hit from the sideline angle and the angle behind cam, I keep looking for something to be mad at, but I just don't see it.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Jase said:

okay.  IDK, I keep looking at the hit from the sideline angle and the angle behind cam, I keep looking for something to be mad at, but I just don't see it.

There are 3 angles of it.  From behind Cam it doesn't look that bad.  That is the one all over the internet today. From behind Barron, it shows a clear shot of the helmet to helmet shot.

again, I can get that one from a bang bang aspect and not being positioned at the angle needed.  But not Donald's.

Barron's type is why guys get fined because you can't catch all those in a game.  They happen.  Donald's has to get a flag.  No excuse 

[top dawg]

Can a concussion occur to what amounts to a defenseless QB in the pocket, even if someone causes a helmet to helmet hit by accident? If so, then what has intent got to do with it? People don't generally intend to cause traffic accidents, but still have to pay the piper if they cause one.

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Can a concussion occur to what amounts to a defenseless QB in the pocket, even if someone causes a helmet to helmet hit by accident? If so, then what has intent got to do with it? People don't generally intend to cause traffic accidents, but still have to pay the piper if they cause one.

Intent doesn't matter.  What someone perceives you lead with doesn't matter. 

Contact with the head is a penalty.  Cam is a giant and the Rams intentionally went high like everyone else is doing in the pocket.  Those are penalties due to the direct head blows. 

Cam is being treated as a RB while as a passer.  Deemed football plays for him.  

Barron was getting checked out for a concussion after cracking his helmet on Cam's helmet.  But let's talk about how he launched cleanly high and maybe lead with his shoulder (despite all that not making it a legal hit on a passer)

[LinvilleGorge]

Watching live, I thought the Barron hit was borderline and the Donald hit was clearly a penalty. The thing is that virtually every other QB in the league seems to almost always get those borderline calls. Cam can't even get the obvious ones much less the borderline ones.

[Khyber53]

The refs were screwed yesterday whichever way they called those hits. If they call them for the Panthers, then the Rams and Fisher were going to go to the league and say "Those were clean hits and the penalties cost us the game."

They don't call them and the Panthers say, "See, that's what we were talking about. No protection, they are going to get our QB killed."

I think the only way they were going to call a penalty was if it was perfectly clear and obviously intentional. Blatant roughing the passer. By making even the questionable ones a no call, as long as Cam didn't get up woozy or have to leave the game, they can say what the did/did not do did not have a marked effect on the outcome of the game.

It's the chicken's way out, but that's their only defense when they have to explain it to the league. "We made no calls that altered the outcome of the game."

Sucks, still.

[L-TownCat]

Both are irrefutable penalties.  

1)Contact was made to the QBs helmet in both cases.

2)Both defenders left their feet in order to go high on the QB.

3)The QB was still in the pocket and not a runner.

 

its not even a question anymore.

[juliosantos]

not clean but refs legit hate cam and they hate the panthers . 

[rico6]

2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

The refs were screwed yesterday whichever way they called those hits. If they call them for the Panthers, then the Rams and Fisher were going to go to the league and say "Those were clean hits and the penalties cost us the game."

They don't call them and the Panthers say, "See, that's what we were talking about. No protection, they are going to get our QB killed."

I think the only way they were going to call a penalty was if it was perfectly clear and obviously intentional. Blatant roughing the passer. By making even the questionable ones a no call, as long as Cam didn't get up woozy or have to leave the game, they can say what the did/did not do did not have a marked effect on the outcome of the game.

It's the chicken's way out, but that's their only defense when they have to explain it to the league. "We made no calls that altered the outcome of the game."

Sucks, still.

Fisher complained pre-game that he couldn't rough Cam up and is notoriously known as a dirty ass underachieving beyatch. If Gordell cared, it would show. He doesn't care and it showed.

[Cary Kollins]

The most annoying part was John Lynch yukking it up exclaiming, "He won't be calling the commissioner about that hit!!"

[CPantherKing]

4 hours ago, Kakarot said:

Yea, that Barron hit was bad. Got him helmet to helmet by launching at Cam, and then finished the play with a forearm shot to the head. Both deserved flags, but I don't think Donald's was intentional.

Completely agree on the Barron hit. I do believe both were intentional. There were 2 other attempts to deliver the same type of launching hit to Cam's head, but he had released the ball and fell away enough that helmet to helmet contact did not occur. Both those passes were completed.

I would have to say from experience as a defensive player that launching yourself is always intentional.

Does not matter if there was intent. All that matters is that the hit was delivered with force and struck any part of a passer's head or neck who was in a passing posture. Contact can not be made in these areas of the passer with the helmet, facemask, shoulder, arm or hand. Any doubt favors the passer and not the defender. Officials are to call roughing the passer if they have any doubt that roughing has occurred. All in the rule book. Section 2 - article 9.

Any player launching up at a QBs head should always be called for roughing. The hit zone on Cam is large. No excuse for any player to strike him anywhere near his head.

Ask yourself why TD and Luke never seem to hit the head of the QB when they are blitzing, and they hit hard. They hit in the chest to the hips without leaving their feet, because there is only one reason to exert the effort to leave your feet when making a tackle - only one reason. If the zone to strike is between the shoulder pads and thighs and it is doable on QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, then it is very easy to do that against Cam.

Just because he may not go down because he is so strong is on the defender. Wrap up and drive through the tackle.

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, juliosantos said:

not clean but refs legit hate cam and they hate the panthers . 

I believe the bigger question in all this is why was there NO DOUBT in the officials mind that this was roughing?

The media needs to start calling in an official to question and write about it. They have the right to do this without a press conference immediately following a game. They could have easily answered whether or not they had any doubt on either of the hits, and when they answer 'yes' or 'no' the media can nail them since their ability to see any doubt in either play could be questioned or their ability to understand the rule book could be questioned directly.

[gorillamilitia13]

The Barron hit seems like it could've been dirty but the Donald one seemed incidental. Though I find it interesting how they both stayed up high while sacking Cam.