why is ted ginn the focal point of our offense

[electro's horse]

Let's go back to almost the immediate aftermath of the 2008 season. 

The Panthers had just laid the biggest egg in team history against Arizona, at home, in the playoffs. Jake Delhomme turned the ball over 8 times. This was the culmination of a very up and down season for him, in which he pitched two of the worst games of the year for any QB, against the Raiders and Lions respectively. 

At the time i was still cursed by the burden of hope, so I wasn't immediately suicidal when they rewarded Delhomme for his performance. Not only were they grossly overpaying for a quarterback well past his prime, coming off a hideous year, but they did it in a way that gave them no way outs. Not only were they financially committing to Jake Delhomme, they were doing so in a way they couldn't get out of. It was remarkable. So remarkable in fact that when Delhomme and the Browns beat the Panthers two years later, Carolina paid him to do so. 

But why did they do that? It was a terrible idea for a player whos best days were clearly behind him, and it's a very easy line to draw between that contract and the end of the Hurney era some years later. 

People like to feel smart. I've somehow gotten older, as it goes, and one thing I've learned is people really like it if you make them feel smart. You will get far in life if you figure out how to do this. Another way to succeed is to be that person someone gambled and won on, because they will always remember it. Delhomme was their gamble that paid off. He was a quirky prospect from New Orleans they identified and ran with. Delhomme wasn't consistent, but man did he have a hose, and he could sling the damn rock. On top of that, he had that "it" factor, the kind of immeasurable that Hurney would spend the back half of his career chasing. The Panthers offered him a chance to compete, unlike Dallas, who just wanted him on the roster. They went to the Super Bowl with him his first year, and everyone looked like a genius.

And they tried to chase that after 2008. And they failed. And it cost them their jobs and five years of our lives. 

Ted Ginn as a propsect makes you salivate. He was one of the biggest recruits in the history of Ohio State. They talked about him in the same way Michigan fans talked about Charles Woodson. As a high schooler, he defeated Usain Bolt in the 100m dash. He was that guy in prep football who played every position. Eventually OSU got the idea to turn him into a receiver; he just had so much upside. If this guy caught the ball in stride, he was fuging gone. It didn't matter that he couldn't catch, or really run routes that well, and he pretty clearly had no idea how to actually play the game. If we could just get this guy going, holy poo were were we going to look like geniuses.

It never really happened at Ohio State, but Cam Cameron saw something in 2007! he knew if he could just teach Ted Ginn how to play, he would look like a genius. Ginn could be the game changer that defined a franchise. They just had to teach him how to play. 

Cam Cameron was fired. Ginn would eventually end up in San francisco where he vanished. He would be benched as a wide receiver, until the Panthers took a flyer on him in 2013. By this point, Ted Ginn was a fuging joke. He was an answer at trivia. But boy howdy did he make Dave Gettleman look smart. And he made the Panthers coaches look like they knew what they were doing. Ginn's stats weren't earth shattering, but he was finally showing flashes of the potential that made him a first round pick coming out how Ohio State.

So of course he signs a big contract and bombs in 2014. But hey, the Panthers are smart, and we got coaches that could figure it out, and we can roll those dice again. Yeah sure, you can't do it, but we can. So the Panthers brought him back. 

And it worked again. Everything worked last year, but Ted Ginn was a standout. He had the best year of his fuging career. Now, typically when a player has the best year of their career out of nowhere at age 30, you say thank you for your hard work and trade him to the first sucker willing to give you anything for him. But not the Panthers.

Ginn was thrust into a bigger role last year by the injury to Kelvin Benjamin. Benji has some major faults (conditioning, route running, and I'm not sure he's "football tough," whatever that means to you), but he's a better fuging player than Ted Ginn. Benji returning, Devin rising, and Olsen having the best year of any tight end should relegate Ted into a situational deep threat role. But that's not happening.

Benji got the most targets today with 12. But Ginn had the second most with 8, tied with Olsen. He also had one of his patented rush attempts to nowhere. I was at the game today, but you don't need to be there to get the sense of it. It's the same look on television. This team is designing plays for Ted Ginn.

He's not a third or fourth option. He's not the one or two deep strikes a game target when Cam sees him with single coverage. The Panthers are spending precious resources running plays specifically for him. The smoke screens that don't fool anyone, these deep cuts that are long throws for short yards, these jet sweeps. These are all plays in the book specifically for Ted Ginn jr. 

There's a lot of problems with this, many of which were on display today. Cam slightly underthrew a post route to him in the first half, and it's a miracle it wasn't picked. Not necessarily because of the throw, but because Ted Ginn made absolutely no play on the ball at all. He just sat there and stared while the DB broke back on it and nearly picked it off. It goes back to something that has haunted him his entire career: not actually knowing how to play football.

Ted Ginn is also 31 years old, and while he's still plenty fast, he doesn't have that gear anymore. Long ago, you could toss him the ball, throw a blocker out there, and hope for the best. Now, he's dancing. And while he's looking for those holes to open, defenders are closing on him. Same with the kick returns. That kind of reckless abandon you need to be a successful returner is gone. Instead, Ginn is waiting for holes to open that never do. 

So basically Ginn is a role player on a steep decline expected to contribute way more to an offense that has much better options that are being bypassed so he can underperform. But why?

He's their Delhomme. He's their reclamation project. For Gettleman, he's that garbage heap player he identified and shined into a diamond. For the coaching staff, he's the player they could get production out of that the Dolphins, Cardinals, and Niners never could. For Shula, he's a low risk high reward play option who can break one at any point. But, in order I just listed them

1. That was then, this is now

2. He's got nothing left

3. Shut up Shula you fuging hack

Every pass that goes to him is one that doesn't go to Olsen, Benjamin, or Funchess. 

Every perfectly executed play in his direction still hinges on the worst set of hands in the NFL. 

Every first down jet sweep, or smoke screen, or end around is just taking a down off the board for the Panthers and putting a vulnerable offensive line in a worse position. 

Every playcall that has him a first or second read is putting Cam in a position where he's throwing a ball to a guy who can't beat coverage or make the catch when he can. 

Players aren't dumb. They know what Ted Ginn is. No one is threatened by him. No one is going press him and let him get by them. 

Ted Ginn Jr. is someone's Jake Delhomme. It's just matter of how far up the firings go. 

[Mage]

Because Kelvin Benjamin looks out of breath every time he makes a catch.

[bigdog10]

He's not the focal point. He is literally the only receiver that can get any separation. 

Funchess and Benjamin literally wear their defenders like capes for 95% of the game. 

[The_Rainmaker]

Just now, bigdog10 said:

He's not the focal point. He is literally the only receiver that can get any separation. 

Funchess and Benjamin literally wear their defenders like capes for 95% of the game. 

This is Dave Gettleman's fault with obessesing with size, we should have drafted a shifty speedy WR like Lockette or Shepard. 

[beastson]

Hmm

I really would like to know where Philly brown has gone and this explains it. With Kelvin back, it's like Philly and Ginn cancel each other out. I really wish Byrd got a chance and at this point why not to getting brenton some time, he can run routes and gives Cam another option

Sent from my HTC One M9 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[electro's horse]

8 minutes ago, beastson said:

Hmm

I really would like to know where Philly brown has gone and this explains it. With Kelvin back, it's like Philly and Ginn cancel each other out. I really wish Byrd got a chance and at this point why not to getting brenton some time, he can run routes and gives Cam another option

Sent from my HTC One M9 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

this is another problem.

Funchess and Benjamin are kinda similar receivers, so I understand why you feel like you need the speedy guy on the field or whatever, just to take the top off the defense.

but why in the name of god do you put ginn out there instead of philly? Philly has only ever done everything he was asked by the coaching staff. Ginn is toast. 

I'm always the last person to scream "BENCH THE OLD PLAY THE YOUNG" but in this case it needs to happen.

[PhillyB]

i am far more concerned with his performance on punt returns tbh

[CLG]

Honestly didn't read the whole thing but I will say.. cams chemistry with Ted is only second to his chemistry with Greg. 

[blackcat]

The jet sweeps and screens for 3 yards need to be retired.  Like 9 weeks ago.

[csx]

He isn't. He is a distant 3rd on the team with 4.9 targets a game. Less than a target a game more than Funchess and Brown. Olsen and KB are in the 7, 8 target range.

 

I'm not against moving on though.

[electro's horse]

7 minutes ago, csx said:

He isn't. He is a distant 3rd on the team with 4.9 targets a game. Less than a target a game more than Funchess and Brown. Olsen and KB are in the 7, 8 target range.

do this math again with rushing attempts

i'd also say returns but that's obviously not purely offense

[SOJA]

overall I agree with the theme. people love looking smart and Ted Ginn doing well makes us look good. 

But I've got to mention that he had a pretty damn good year last year, and for some reason Cam just loves speedsters. He and Deshean Jackson instantly clicked at the Pro-Bowl 

Panthers are having an identity crisis, because our offense is so inconsistent outside of Olsen. 

[Paa Langfart]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

Let's go back to almost the immediate aftermath of the 2008 season. 

The Panthers had just laid the biggest egg in team history against Arizona, at home, in the playoffs. Jake Delhomme turned the ball over 8 times. This was the culmination of a very up and down season for him, in which he pitched two of the worst games of the year for any QB, against the Raiders and Lions respectively. 

At the time i was still cursed by the burden of hope, so I wasn't immediately suicidal when they rewarded Delhomme for his performance. Not only were they grossly overpaying for a quarterback well past his prime, coming off a hideous year, but they did it in a way that gave them no way outs. Not only were they financially committing to Jake Delhomme, they were doing so in a way they couldn't get out of. It was remarkable. So remarkable in fact that when Delhomme and the Browns beat the Panthers two years later, Carolina paid him to do so. 

But why did they do that? It was a terrible idea for a player whos best days were clearly behind him, and it's a very easy line to draw between that contract and the end of the Hurney era some years later. 

People like to feel smart. I've somehow gotten older, as it goes, and one thing I've learned is people really like it if you make them feel smart. You will get far in life if you figure out how to do this. Another way to succeed is to be that person someone gambled and won on, because they will always remember it. Delhomme was their gamble that paid off. He was a quirky prospect from New Orleans they identified and ran with. Delhomme wasn't consistent, but man did he have a hose, and he could sling the damn rock. On top of that, he had that "it" factor, the kind of immeasurable that Hurney would spend the back half of his career chasing. The Panthers offered him a chance to compete, unlike Dallas, who just wanted him on the roster. They went to the Super Bowl with him his first year, and everyone looked like a genius.

And they tried to chase that after 2008. And they failed. And it cost them their jobs and five years of our lives. 

Ted Ginn as a propsect makes you salivate. He was one of the biggest recruits in the history of Ohio State. They talked about him in the same way Michigan fans talked about Charles Woodson. As a high schooler, he defeated Usain Bolt in the 100m dash. He was that guy in prep football who played every position. Eventually OSU got the idea to turn him into a receiver; he just had so much upside. If this guy caught the ball in stride, he was fuging gone. It didn't matter that he couldn't catch, or really run routes that well, and he pretty clearly had no idea how to actually play the game. If we could just get this guy going, holy poo were were we going to look like geniuses.

It never really happened at Ohio State, but Cam Cameron saw something in 2007! he knew if he could just teach Ted Ginn how to play, he would look like a genius. Ginn could be the game changer that defined a franchise. They just had to teach him how to play. 

Cam Cameron was fired. Ginn would eventually end up in San francisco where he vanished. He would be benched as a wide receiver, until the Panthers took a flyer on him in 2013. By this point, Ted Ginn was a fuging joke. He was an answer at trivia. But boy howdy did he make Dave Gettleman look smart. And he made the Panthers coaches look like they knew what they were doing. Ginn's stats weren't earth shattering, but he was finally showing flashes of the potential that made him a first round pick coming out how Ohio State.

So of course he signs a big contract and bombs in 2014. But hey, the Panthers are smart, and we got coaches that could figure it out, and we can roll those dice again. Yeah sure, you can't do it, but we can. So the Panthers brought him back. 

And it worked again. Everything worked last year, but Ted Ginn was a standout. He had the best year of his fuging career. Now, typically when a player has the best year of their career out of nowhere at age 30, you say thank you for your hard work and trade him to the first sucker willing to give you anything for him. But not the Panthers.

Ginn was thrust into a bigger role last year by the injury to Kelvin Benjamin. Benji has some major faults (conditioning, route running, and I'm not sure he's "football tough," whatever that means to you), but he's a better fuging player than Ted Ginn. Benji returning, Devin rising, and Olsen having the best year of any tight end should relegate Ted into a situational deep threat role. But that's not happening.

Benji got the most targets today with 12. But Ginn had the second most with 8, tied with Olsen. He also had one of his patented rush attempts to nowhere. I was at the game today, but you don't need to be there to get the sense of it. It's the same look on television. This team is designing plays for Ted Ginn.

He's not a third or fourth option. He's not the one or two deep strikes a game target when Cam sees him with single coverage. The Panthers are spending precious resources running plays specifically for him. The smoke screens that don't fool anyone, these deep cuts that are long throws for short yards, these jet sweeps. These are all plays in the book specifically for Ted Ginn jr. 

There's a lot of problems with this, many of which were on display today. Cam slightly underthrew a post route to him in the first half, and it's a miracle it wasn't picked. Not necessarily because of the throw, but because Ted Ginn made absolutely no play on the ball at all. He just sat there and stared while the DB broke back on it and nearly picked it off. It goes back to something that has haunted him his entire career: not actually knowing how to play football.

Ted Ginn is also 31 years old, and while he's still plenty fast, he doesn't have that gear anymore. Long ago, you could toss him the ball, throw a blocker out there, and hope for the best. Now, he's dancing. And while he's looking for those holes to open, defenders are closing on him. Same with the kick returns. That kind of reckless abandon you need to be a successful returner is gone. Instead, Ginn is waiting for holes to open that never do. 

So basically Ginn is a role player on a steep decline expected to contribute way more to an offense that has much better options that are being bypassed so he can underperform. But why?

He's their Delhomme. He's their reclamation project. For Gettleman, he's that garbage heap player he identified and shined into a diamond. For the coaching staff, he's the player they could get production out of that the Dolphins, Cardinals, and Niners never could. For Shula, he's a low risk high reward play option who can break one at any point. But, in order I just listed them

1. That was then, this is now

2. He's got nothing left

3. Shut up Shula you fuging hack

Every pass that goes to him is one that doesn't go to Olsen, Benjamin, or Funchess. 

Every perfectly executed play in his direction still hinges on the worst set of hands in the NFL. 

Every first down jet sweep, or smoke screen, or end around is just taking a down off the board for the Panthers and putting a vulnerable offensive line in a worse position. 

Every playcall that has him a first or second read is putting Cam in a position where he's throwing a ball to a guy who can't beat coverage or make the catch when he can. 

Players aren't dumb. They know what Ted Ginn is. No one is threatened by him. No one is going press him and let him get by them. 

Ted Ginn Jr. is someone's Jake Delhomme. It's just matter of how far up the firings go. 

No one else will pie you but I will.  Lot of dead wood on this team and Ginn is one on our starting offense.  

[KSpan]

4 minutes ago, Paa Langfart said:

No one else will pie you but I will.  Lot of dead wood on this team and Ginn is one on our starting offense.  

Ginn is hardly 'dead 'wood' this year, but I won't really disagree with the general assertion that his role is probably too broad compared to his effectiveness.