Collapse of the running game has exposed Cam's weaknesses as a passer

[bigdog10]

Damn, we can't have a rational conversation about Cam on this board. One side blames everything on Cam and the other side would literally absolve him of blame if he committed murder in front of their eyes. 

The dude is an amazing talent and top qb in this league who needs a better supporting cast and needs to put in some work on fine tuning the smaller aspects of his game (nothing more, nothing less). 

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

If Cam had a better mid range passing game that could force the defenses to respect the middle of the field it would ameliorate lots of problems. I'm not sure why this is a controversial statement. 

If Cam could replicate an MVP performance every season and cover up all the poo stains on the offense while playing near perfect in situations 95% of all QBs would struggle in, then I would agree with you. Seems this is what you are asking for from Cam Newton. You would be lucky to get what you are asking for from Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Johnny Unitas in their prime given the same poo situations on offense, defense, special teams, and coaching.

No matter what you perceive, the numbers will never back you up in thinking QBs can consistently come back and win games in the 4th quarter, or put up highly efficient numbers when the offense can only run the ball less than 40% of the time. The best offenses in NFL history with defenses that could not hold a lead struggled to win games and put up high percentage of error in their execution, because they had to put themselves in high risk positions to overcome the lost lead.

Offensive efficiency is a product of the situations dictated by that team's own defense - especially late in games.

There has been a drop off by the offense, but that was expected. The drop off has also been a lot smaller than most of you believe.it to be. It seems you are using the record breaking season last year as a baseline to assess the offense.

Now, the defense has had a dramatic drop off that is a complete failure. There is no reason the defense should have fallen off the cliff like it did, and you expect the offense to carry a bad defense? Defense is the foundation of any good offense. Without that defense, the best offense is ineffective over the course of a season.

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, bigdog10 said:

Damn, we can't have a rational conversation about Cam on this board. One side blames everything on Cam and the other side would literally absolve him of blame if he committed murder in front of their eyes. 

The dude is an amazing talent and top qb in this league who needs a better supporting cast and needs to put in some work on fine tuning the smaller aspects of his game (nothing more, nothing less). 

Yep, not much middle ground to be found.

[electro's horse]

10 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

If Cam could replicate an MVP performance every season and cover up all the poo stains on the offense while playing near perfect in situations 95% of all QBs would struggle in, then I would agree with you. Seems this is what you are asking for from Cam Newton. You would be lucky to get what you are asking for from Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Johnny Unitas in their prime given the same poo situations on offense, defense, special teams, and coaching.

No matter what you perceive, the numbers will never back you up in thinking QBs can consistently come back and win games in the 4th quarter, or put up highly efficient numbers when the offense can only run the ball less than 40% of the time. The best offenses in NFL history with defenses that could not hold a lead struggled to win games and put up high percentage of error in their execution, because they had to put themselves in high risk positions to overcome the lost lead.

Offensive efficiency is a product of the situations dictated by that team's own defense - especially late in games.

There has been a drop off by the offense, but that was expected. The drop off has also been a lot smaller than most of you believe.it to be. It seems you are using the record breaking season last year as a baseline to assess the offense.

Now, the defense has had a dramatic drop off that is a complete failure. There is no reason the defense should have fallen off the cliff like it did, and you expect the offense to carry a bad defense? Defense is the foundation of any good offense. Without that defense, the best offense is ineffective over the course of a season.

Alright this is really difficult to parse but I'm going to try my best here. 

Good players overcome bad elements of the team. Brady got to the AFC Championship last year with a horrific defense and offensive line. I've said numerous, numerous, numerous times that the collapse of the offense is due to a number of factors, and Cam's play is one of them. This is a thread about Cam's play. If you would like to make a thread about offensive line injuries, or WR regression, or Shula's incompetence, or adjustments made by the league, then go hog wild. I'll post in them. But I'm not going to sit here and argue about which factor is more important, and whether or not the confluence of poo is actually creating an illusion of Cam Newton being incapable of making route tree throws instead of him actually not being able to do it. 

Offensive efficiency has nothing to do with the defense. i mean just by its name it has to do with....the efficiency of the offense. And the Panthers run a very inefficient offense. There are elements that are out of Cam's control, and there are elements within it. You're holding on to this 40% number for some reason, and I don't really know where you're going with that. 

You're also insanely wrong. The Panthers are running the ball 58% of the time.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

It's not working because 

a. the linebackers are sitting on things because they don't need to worry about the middle of the field

b. the offensive line is a shambles, Tolbert has fallen off a cliff

c. no is taking Cam seriously as a runner anymore because he can't run

As far as the dropoff in points, they're down to 23 points per game from about 31. That's you know fairly substantial. I don't know which autobell you work at, but if you wash 25% fewer cars, people are going to notice. 

The Panthers are last in the league right now in fourth quarter defense. They're basically middle of the road everywhere else, and I imagine the difference is even more stark if they take out the outlier of the Falcons game.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opp-4th-quarter-points-per-game

Generally this indicates a defense is tired, and the likely explanation for that would be an offense that can't stay on the field or sustain drives in the second half. 

but I'm really interested in knowing how cam's inaccuracy and the team's inability to run is because the defense something something 40 percent runs i have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Cookie Lyon]

3 hours ago, truthjuice said:

The lack of run game exposed Mike Shula's inability to adjust, Ron, Dave and others LMAO. 

Yall need some Valium. This is the strangest fanbase ever. 

PREACH

[Snake]

Really need to bump up the thread restrictions to 3000 posts. The huddle would be better for it. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

I think that claiming Cam is awful at mid range throws is a bit of a stretch. It would help if he wideouts would drop easy passes
 

"Awful" might be an overstatement, but touch passes definitely aren't Newton's strongest suit.

[Ken]

2 hours ago, bigdog10 said:

Damn, we can't have a rational conversation about Cam on this board. One side blames everything on Cam and the other side would literally absolve him of blame if he committed murder in front of their eyes. 

The dude is an amazing talent and top qb in this league who needs a better supporting cast and needs to put in some work on fine tuning the smaller aspects of his game (nothing more, nothing less). 

This. Best post in the thread.

Right now Cam has obvious flaws that needs to be addressed. This is the truth. He's still a great QB. Also the truth.

[Manos]

"Awful" might be an overstatement, but touch passes definitely aren't Newton's strongest suit.

The more I watch Cam the less I think it's touch that is his issue but lack of anticipation. You give him a set spot to throw it to and he can get it there, even if he has to loft it a bit. He just doesn't do well when it comes to believing his receivers see what he sees and throwing it up hoping they react properly. It is one of the reasons I would love to see him in a west coast offense. So much of it is scripted and based off timing that it would help Cam immensely. People bitch about his short accuracy and so much of that is because he throws balls one way and his receivers cut or lean or tilt the other. The entire offense is just out of sync.

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[pantherphan96]

Cam certainly could improve in many areas as a passer (better touch, not overthrowing, etc) but the 2 biggest problems this offense has is the playcall and the OL.

Most of the offensive playcall involves downfield passing routes that take time to develop and without the OL being able to establish the run to quell blitzes or being able to protect Cam for more than 2 seconds without the pocket collapsing the offense has been stagnant far too often.

The redzone INT playcall was perhaps the most egregious example, with both Philly and KB running run a curl (without utilizing all 10 yards of the end zone and cutting off the route 2 yards in) and Funchess on the other side running a fade. No reason not to have Philly/Ginn running a slant or a flat that close to the end zone if you are gonna pass the ball. Or maybe just run the ball on 1st and goal from the 4?

[Cpt slay a ho]

Cam is holding the ball longer this year and not scrambling much....but let's be real KB isn't helping, the run game is non existent and we still have yet to find a playmaker on offense besides cam...recipe for a mediocre offense. Get the talent on offense first then ask the questions later, not ass backwards. Our wr core still needs work, at least it looks like funchess is coming along


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[Cpt slay a ho]

Also cam's completion percentage is low due mostly to he rarely checks down. Double edge sword, can allow opportunities for big plays on offense....but also on defense


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[saX man]

This is what happens 

[Krovvy]

I don't think this is a big reason for his completion percentage being down, but how many drops do the Panther's receivers have this year? I feel like this year I've seen more drops and tipped balls then I've ever seen in any NFL season.