Panthers had Grier ahead of Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones

[kungfoodude]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If there's been "gleeful celebration" of Newton's problems, I've missed it. For my own part, I've acknowledged the possibility and analyzed how and why I hold Ron Rivera primarily responsible.

As to us taking a long time to find a franchise quarterback, that's probably directly attributable to the fact that we weren't looking for one.

John Fox didn't believe in the "franchise quarterback" model. He wanted a defense centered team and preferred a guy like Jake Delhomme in the driver's seat of the offense.

Prior to that, you had Seifert who just needed a West Coast style game manager and Capers who believed Kerry Collins was gonna be the guy. And to be fair, Collins definitely had that potential until the day he freaked out and quit on the team.

So while I agree it took a long time to find an actual franchise quarterback, the truth is that through the span of several years and the last two coaches, we weren't really trying to get one.

 It's not like we tried and failed. Outside of Collins, we just didn't try.

Oh there has been plenty of people excited about the prospect of getting rid of Cam. It's the same crowd who has hated him from day one, so it isn't that surprising at all. It's a minority opinion, thankfully. 

I don't think we didn't try and find a franchise QB, we just failed at it pretty miserably. I will concede that Fox did not value QB as highly as a strong running game or strong defense. And, in fairness to him, that was during the transition period in the NFL from those traditional run heavy offenses to the very heavily passing based offenses that we see in the modern NFL. As long as the league leans heavily towards these pass heavy offenses, QB's will be the most critical components. 

And we did have some successful QB's that were not franchise QB's. Steve Beuerlein and Jake Delhomme were very effective QB's the majority of the time.

 

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Oh there has been plenty of people excited about the prospect of getting rid of Cam. It's the same crowd who has hated him from day one, so it isn't that surprising at all. It's a minority opinion, thankfully. 

I don't think we didn't try and find a franchise QB, we just failed at it pretty miserably. I will concede that Fox did not value QB as highly as a strong running game or strong defense. And, in fairness to him, that was during the transition period in the NFL from those traditional run heavy offenses to the very heavily passing based offenses that we see in the modern NFL. As long as the league leans heavily towards these pass heavy offenses, QB's will be the most critical components. 

And we did have some successful QB's that were not franchise QB's. Steve Beuerlein and Jake Delhomme were very effective QB's the majority of the time.

Delhomme and Beuerlein weren't franchise QBs though.

Neither was Chris Weinke, but if George Seifert had gotten his way, that's who would have been running our offense. Weinke just wasn't good enough.

Prior to Rivera, the only coach who actually wanted and tried to get a true franchise QB was Dom Capers, and unfortunately his choice went off the rails just a few years in.

I suppose you could say Hurney tried with Jimmy Clausen, but that was without John Fox's buy-in.

[trueblade]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

suppose you could say Hurney tried with Jimmy Clausen, but that was without John Fox's buy-in.

Now you have me curious as to Rivera's level of buy-in on the Grier move. Norv seems bought in on Grier and I bet Ron had a high level of trust in Norv.  I'm going to assume Ron is much more on board with this than Foxy was with The Jimmy. 

[Paintballr]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:04 PM, Pazhoosier89 said:

Not surprising from a guy who thought Jimmy Clausen was a 2nd round QB. Hope Grier turns out better.

 

He didn’t, he believed he was a 1st rounder but we didn’t have one that year to pick it 

[Mr. Scot]

43 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Now you have me curious as to Rivera's level of buy-in on the Grier move. Norv seems bought in on Grier and I bet Ron had a high level of trust in Norv.  I'm going to assume Ron is much more on board with this than Foxy was with The Jimmy. 

Rivera would sign Adam Sandler if Norv thought it was a good idea.

That said, Norv tends to know what he's talking about when it comes to quarterbacks and the reports are that he "raved" to Rivera (Ron's own words) about Grier.

[AggieLean]

On 4/30/2019 at 5:11 PM, tiger7_88 said:

Not that I have anything against Will Grier, but I'm really looking forward to the first time he overthrows a receiver.

That's gon' be fun.

I just want to see who comes to his side or aide on here once he does this. That will be the fun part.

 

[tiger7_88]

20 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

After the years of me taking your side re: Cam, suddenly I’m the enemy?

You want to twist what I say and try to make it that I said something I DIDN'T say?

Come at me, bro.  Don't expect millennial puss-boy back down from this quarter.

[Carl Spackler]

8 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

You want to twist what I say and try to make it that I said something I DIDN'T say?

Come at me, bro.  Don't expect millennial puss-boy back down from this quarter.

Dude you legitimately need to do a better job of picking and choosing your battles. I’ve been on your side for years, but please explain to ALL of us how you saying you can’t wair for Grier’s first overthrown ball so you can get back at the Cam haters DOESN’T sound like you have something against Grier. 

I’m not the only one who saw it that way, so before you dive in for another feeble dig at me, explain just what the hell you meant. 

[tiger7_88]

21 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Dude you legitimately need to do a better job of picking and choosing your battles. I’ve been on your side for years, but please explain to ALL of us how you saying you can’t wair for Grier’s first overthrown ball so you can get back at the Cam haters DOESN’T sound like you have something against Grier. 

I’m not the only one who saw it that way, so before you dive in for another feeble dig at me, explain just what the hell you meant. 

Because, as I've explained from minute one for Cam, ALL QUARTERBACKS OVERTHROW PASSES.

Tom Brady overthrows passes.

Phillip Rivers overthrows passes.

Cam Newton overthrows passes.

And, yes, Will Grier will overthrow passes.

So I'm gonna give the haters some poo when Grier overthrows one because of all the hate they've spewed over the years and you have a problem with that?  My pretend criticism ain't gonna make a damn difference how Grier actually performs (and I hope he performs well), but it WILL piss off the haters and racists who never gave Cam a break.

You have a problem with that?  Then you know where and how far you can fugging shove it.

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Delhomme and Beuerlein weren't franchise QBs though.

Neither was Chris Weinke, but if George Seifert had gotten his way, that's who would have been running our offense. Weinke just wasn't good enough.

Prior to Rivera, the only coach who actually wanted and tried to get a true franchise QB was Dom Capers, and unfortunately his choice went off the rails just a few years in.

I suppose you could say Hurney tried with Jimmy Clausen, but that was without John Fox's buy-in.

Oh no, Delhomme and Beuerlein were fine QB's but definitely not franchise QB's. Clausen I feel like we got rooked by Kiper and the ESPN machine.

[Carl Spackler]

 

40 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

So I'm gonna give the haters some poo when Grier overthrows one because of all the hate they've spewed over the years and you have a problem with that? 

It just makes you look like a petty bitch, but do whatever floats your boat. 

[tiger7_88]

12 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

 

It just makes you look like a petty bitch, but do whatever floats your boat. 

OK, you French surrender-monkey, you let the OTHER guys set the rules and then you decide not to hold them to the SAME GODDAM rules.

My opinion is EQUAL justice and EQUAL treatment.  If you want to fug one player over one thing, but not do the same for the other, that is UN-equal justice, bro.  The only way you can convince idiots to change is to make sure that THEY have to exist under the same rules that THEY demand.

But if you feel comfortable being all about your surrender-attitude, bro, you be you.

[Carl Spackler]

5 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

OK, you French surrender-monkey, you let the OTHER guys set the rules and then you decide not to hold them to the SAME GODDAM rules.

My opinion is EQUAL justice and EQUAL treatment.  If you want to fug one player over one thing, but not do the same for the other, that is UN-equal justice, bro.  The only way you can convince idiots to change is to make sure that THEY have to exist under the same rules that THEY demand.

But if you feel comfortable being all about your surrender-attitude, bro, you be you.

Maybe if you saved your vitriol for them personally, it’d be less hypocritical. 

[saX man]

Color Commentary on thread: We've got a bunch of vegan hot dogs in here.  

Commentary on thread topic: I'm a Grier fan.  Hope he wins us games if he needs to come in.