Panthers had Grier ahead of Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones

[tiger7_88]

57 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Maybe if you saved your vitriol for them personally, it’d be less hypocritical. 

Tells me all I need to know about your former so-called "defense" of Cam, bro.

Be well.

[Carl Spackler]

45 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Tells me all I need to know about your former so-called "defense" of Cam, bro.

Be well.

You have issues, my guy

[tiger7_88]

32 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

You have issues, my guy

I'm not your guy, bud.

You wanna be all buddy-buddy with the Cam-haters?  

Yeah, tells me 100% of what I need to know about all your self-purported and previous Cam "support".

i.e. It was BULLpoo.

[raz]

cam haters?   i like cam.  saying best case scenario is we don't have to resign cam if grier is really good is not hating cam.  its liking the panthers.   we needed to do something while cam was on his rookie deal.  we didn't.   our coaches and gm's squandered that chance and got cam beat to hell in the process.  its why i wanted rivera gone.   looking at the future like we need to dump cam before his next contract is just admitting we're not winning with cam if we have to resign him. too much cap space will be eaten.   if the superbowl doesn't happen before that contract comes up, see ya later cam.  and again, it won't be his fault.  it'll be rivera and the gm's.   but the hardest lesson in life is when to cut your losses.  and you don't have to be a dick when you do it - like gettleman.  imho it will be the coaches, management and ownership that screwed cam out of a better career.

[Carl Spackler]

9 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

I'm not your guy, bud.

You wanna be all buddy-buddy with the Cam-haters?  

Yeah, tells me 100% of what I need to know about all your self-purported and previous Cam "support".

i.e. It was BULLpoo.

I’m not buddy-buddy with anybody on here. You just need to be smarter about who you’re going after. I was at Auburn when Cam was there and Cam is my favorite player of all time. You and I have gone over this four times now.

That said, I don’t owe you any explanation for anything. You’re free to believe what you want and to be as stupid as you choose. Clearly, you’re exercising those rights. 

[Verge]

34 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I’m not buddy-buddy with anybody on here. You just need to be smarter about who you’re going after. I was at Auburn when Cam was there and Cam is my favorite player of all time. You and I have gone over this four times now.

That said, I don’t owe you any explanation for anything. You’re free to believe what you want and to be as stupid as you choose. Clearly, you’re exercising those rights. 

What in the world are you guys even arguing about lol

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

5 minutes ago, Verge said:

What in the world are you guys even arguing about lol

I am not sure.  But I do know that now I want to be either a buddy-hater or a hater-buddy.  Just not sure which.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, raz said:

cam haters?   i like cam.  saying best case scenario is we don't have to resign cam if grier is really good is not hating cam.  its liking the panthers.   we needed to do something while cam was on his rookie deal.  we didn't.   our coaches and gm's squandered that chance and got cam beat to hell in the process.  its why i wanted rivera gone.   looking at the future like we need to dump cam before his next contract is just admitting we're not winning with cam if we have to resign him. too much cap space will be eaten.   if the superbowl doesn't happen before that contract comes up, see ya later cam.  and again, it won't be his fault.  it'll be rivera and the gm's.   but the hardest lesson in life is when to cut your losses.  and you don't have to be a dick when you do it - like gettleman.  imho it will be the coaches, management and ownership that screwed cam out of a better career.

There have only been 4 QB's in the last decade who have made Super Bowl appearances while they were on their rookie deals. Winning SB's with rookie deal QB's is not particularly common.

Cutting our losses with Cam? He's 29 and he is the winningest(by total wins) QB in our franchise history already. Unless he is unable to stay healthy the next season or two, there is little reason to consider jettisoning him. And, as for Grier being better than Cam, I think most can agree that is a pretty unlikely scenario. Yes, that could be the best financial situation for the Panthers as a franchise but it's also pretty unlikely. 

[XClown1986]

[raz]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

There have only been 4 QB's in the last decade who have made Super Bowl appearances while they were on their rookie deals. Winning SB's with rookie deal QB's is not particularly common.

Cutting our losses with Cam? He's 29 and he is the winningest(by total wins) QB in our franchise history already. Unless he is unable to stay healthy the next season or two, there is little reason to consider jettisoning him. And, as for Grier being better than Cam, I think most can agree that is a pretty unlikely scenario. Yes, that could be the best financial situation for the Panthers as a franchise but it's also pretty unlikely. 

highly unlikely i agree.  but best case scenario.  its also unlikely we win anything if we have to make cam the highest paid qb in the league again.   not for nothing, but this is why i've been, as have others, screaming to get rid of rivera and the gm's we've had.   they have completely screwed cam over, and us as fans in the process.

[kungfoodude]

28 minutes ago, raz said:

highly unlikely i agree.  but best case scenario.  its also unlikely we win anything if we have to make cam the highest paid qb in the league again.   not for nothing, but this is why i've been, as have others, screaming to get rid of rivera and the gm's we've had.   they have completely screwed cam over, and us as fans in the process.

He wasn't the highest paid QB in the league when he signed his previous deal. Actually, we got a pretty good deal overall when he signed with us. That was the fear at the time was that it was going to be some massive, record setting deal but it didn't happen. I am not concerned about Cam getting a big payday here. The cap keeps moving up, so as long as he stays in the same general range of cap percentage as he has been on this deal(9-13%), we will be fine. I don't buy into this concept that something of the Russell Wilson sized deal being a destructive vehicle that hamstrings the franchise forever. Russell Wilson's deal pays him 14% of the cap the next season and projects to be 15.5% next season(it will vary depending on how much the salary cap goes up). If you as a franchise are ruined by a 2-4% more of your cap being allocated to your best player, then you aren't managing your cap well in the first place. Heck in 2003, Peyton Manning was at 20.5% of the Colts cap. They went 12-4. Brady, although he gets lauded for taking "team friendly" deals, still has predominantly spent his recent career at 8-14% of the cap. So, within the range of the rest of the elite QB's.

Signing a franchise QB to a big deal doesn't wreck the ability for a team to win. Signing a huge deal to a BAD QB does. Signing a huge deal to a BAD LT(Matt Kalil) does. It's when you allocate those resources to someone who can't play at the level required for that deal. Or, in Kalil's case, can't produce at any level. So, we will be fine if we do indeed sign Cam to a $28-33 mil/year deal. Remember, over the life of that deal, the salary cap is likely to continue to go up. Cam hasn't been the predominant issue. It's been protecting Cam or putting weapons around Cam or putting a competent OC with Cam. 

I am not trying to homer out here. If Cam is unable to physically do the job any more and continues to be injured, we do simply have to move on. You can't invest money in a player that doesn't see the field. However, don't get caught up in the "historic QB money deals" hype machine. The same thing happens every cycle. One QB sets the market, the rest either are around there or end up breaking that initial mark. Then the market normalizes to that new level of pay. Rinse and repeat over the next 2-5 years. 

 

[Matthias]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:04 PM, Pazhoosier89 said:

Not surprising from a guy who thought Jimmy Clausen was a 2nd round QB. Hope Grier turns out better.

 

I don't care what anyone says, to this day I believe Hurney would have traded up into the first round to draft Clausen if he could have found a partner. LOL!!!!

[Carl Spackler]

1 hour ago, Verge said:

What in the world are you guys even arguing about lol

I don't hardly even know anymore, he got really mad when I said he sounded like he didn't want Will Grier to succeed after he said he can't wait for Will Grier to throw overthrown passes. From there, it was a natural progression to "U AINT A CAM FAN CAUSE YOU AINT ME AND HE AINT YOUR ONLY FAVORITE PLAYER"

[KSpan]

27 minutes ago, Matthias said:

I don't care what anyone says, to this day I believe Hurney would have traded up into the first round to draft Clausen if he could have found a partner. LOL!!!!

Hurney tried to get to 33, which is close enough.

http://www.espn.com/chicago/news/story?id=5130865

Quote

As he continued to plummet on Friday, Clausen even stopped watching the draft with his family in Palm Springs, Calif. He was playing pool with his friends when his brother handed him the phone. Panthers coach John Fox was at the other end.

"He told me he was trying to get up to the 33rd pick," Clausen said. "He was just really excited to have me on the team. I told him I can't wait to get there and go to work."