ESPN ranks the 2019 rookie classes

[thefuzz]

2 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

And none of that has to do with:

A) Burns literally injuring himself during a non play action.  (slamming his wrist on the ground). Which caused him to miss weeks.  

B) Rivera and Co refusing to play him once healthy, despite getting regular pressure on the snaps he did play.

And Little's lack of production was 100% based on his concussions.  Something you could not predict before hand.

This is my point.  The reason they had lack of production was not through anything you could have reasoned out before.  It had nothing to do with the GM.  They were self inflicted or medical issues you wouldn't know about unless you could see the future.

So if you are going to blame Hurney for Burns/Little lack of production...you are literally blaming Hurney for Burns injuring himself and Little getting concussed. 

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, Burns not getting more playing time is because we were one of the worst teams of all time against the run, and he is more of a liability against the run than the guys that we had out there?

Do you think that's even a mere possibility, or is it strictly on Ron's code, even though he knew he would be fired if they couldn't win some games?

[Waldo]

58 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

But how exactly how big of a piece..considering the overwhelmingly main reason their production was so low is that they were injured?

I can't imagine its much more than a small sliver.

Unless you are implying that there was information shared in those predraft meetings and discussions where information came out that Burns would have a tendency to injure himself and Little would be highly susceptible to concussions?

You can not like the picks.  I don't care.  I can accept that.  You can think others should have been picked. 

But in the context of this thread/conversation.  Its irrelevant.  This is purely about grading production of rookies their rookie year.  Not grading potential.  Not grading skill level.  Production.

And the reason their production was low was not anything related to Hurney.  It was due to injuries.

I didn't say main piece in this discussion, just a fat slice. It's not directly quantifiable, at least I don't see how. 

I agree that the level of dislike for a guy that is 3-14 is dangerously high but in this case, I don't think I stepped over that line. I disagree in your narrative that M & R worked in vacuums or have neat little operating areas. He worked with RR on the Free agency prospects, the draft and the direction of the team. Thus he effected this draft class's production by signing free agents, roster building and planing the teams direction with Ron, decisions the effect playing time and setting up prospects for success. Was he out there with a headset calling plays or making subs? I think we would both disagree with that. Hurney knows Ron, and how he operates. His vision is and has been suspect. Was Burns set up to produce this year after putting together a paper line that had an unimpressive run stooping ability when healthy? For a prospect that was a pass rush specialist with a HC notorious for being stubborn and making bad personnel calls? He helped set up the pass rush to produce this year but at the expense of our D's ability to not be the worst in the league in the run game. How did that effect the way Burns was used in games when we started to lose D linemen? He was on special teams as a gunner and got injured.

I just think you have a simplistic approach to the discussion that doesn't adequately address Hurney's role in the issues we had/have, in this case, specifically this draft class's production last year. He is a high level decision maker and effects a lot of things on this team, directly and indirectly. 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

And the reason their production was low was not anything related to Hurney.  It was due to injuries.

That's not all true though. Burns hurting himself not Hurney's fault. 

Little wasn't originally supposed to be a day 1 starter. Moton was going to play RT and DW was going to play LT. The only problem is DW looked like ass. Since Ron wouldn't move Moton and put DW back in his pro bowl position, insert Little. Then he got hurt, which is out of Hurney's control. But the point is, he wasn't supposed to be starting the whole season anyway.

Grier wasn't meant to see the field.  Production 0

Miller. Injury concerns coming out of college. Gets injured. Production minimal.

 

Scarlett. Ron isn't giving CMC any rest. Production possible, but there's a better chance of winning Draft Kings week 1 million dollar prize.

Daley. Good pick. meant to be depth. Got more than we expected but ended up injured.

Godwin - 7th rd WR with little chance to make the team. Needed a return guy. Cut.

It's not like there was realistically a high chance of more than Burns producing this year. That part I do put on Hurney. Part of it was injury, part of it was to be expected based on the picks.

[RumHam]

tAlEnT eVaLuAtOr. nAiLs FiRsT rOuNdErS.

What a joke.

[RumHam]

hey combine last year's and we are dead last

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

I just think you have a simplistic approach to the discussion that doesn't adequately address Hurney's role in the issues we had/have, in this case, specifically this draft class's production last year. He is a high level decision maker and effects a lot of things on this team, directly and indirectly.

So what should Hurney have done differently to get more production out of Little and Burns?

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, Burns not getting more playing time is because we were one of the worst teams of all time against the run, and he is more of a liability against the run than the guys that we had out there?

Do you think that's even a mere possibility, or is it strictly on Ron's code, even though he knew he would be fired if they couldn't win some games?

Oh.

So you feel our fired coach..a coach we all know won't play a more skilled rookie over veterans.  Had an impact on it?

Man.  

Yall keep coming up with reasons that are "not Hurney" to explain why Hurney is at fault.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Oh.

So you feel our fired coach..a coach we all know won't play a more skilled rookie over veterans.  Had an impact on it?

Man.  

Yall keep coming up with reasons that are "not Hurney" to explain why Hurney is at fault.

So you are saying that there is zero chance that he was worse against the run than the players that we started in lieu of him?

Zero chance?

[Waldo]

30 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

So what should Hurney have done differently to get more production out of Little and Burns?

Why? Would he have been capable of doing anything better than the crap product he puts together year after year? His track record leads me to believe that's fantasy.  

I'm hoping the new people bring in enough competency and ability to offset him. Saying he wasn't part of that failure in production, to some degree, is something I can't agree with. 

 

[Xtreme]

12 hours ago, PanthersBigD said:

He spent one year at USC. Before that he was at a military college due to poor grades. 

Ah, I see. Normally, I go with the school they graduated as the school they came from, but I can see your point.

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

So what should Hurney have done differently to get more production out of Little and Burns?

Simple answer. Lit a fire under Ron's ass about the necessity to win or at least put the best team on the field. Hurney has always bowed down to Ron. The first time it cost Marty his job, this time it cost Ron his.

[kungfoodude]

10 hours ago, 4Corners said:

Are you that same bozo who called me a part of the “deep state” of the huddle? GTFO

LOL. Prime example of why you are such a horrible poster. I have never said that about you. About 3% of what you say is accurate, relevant or intelligent.

[Chief Keek]

Absolutely disgusting

[GoPanthers123]

7 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Oh.

So you feel our fired coach..a coach we all know won't play a more skilled rookie over veterans.  Had an impact on it?

Man.  

Yall keep coming up with reasons that are "not Hurney" to explain why Hurney is at fault.

When Cam was hurt, Ron realised that it was probably his last season.  Developing rookies isn’t a priority. It’s win now or lose the job. 

Honestly the entire coaching staff was awful this year and it’s no good to evaluate new starters just because of that.