Vernon Butler Should Be Resigned

[shaq]

This is just purely my opinion but I think it would make sense to bring back Vernon

Pros-

Athletic and lengthy (seems like a Rhule defensive player)

Resigning him wont affect our comp picks vs signing another DT in free agency which would affect it.

DT is definitely a big need even if we do keep Poe which seems unlikely

Only 25 years old which fits either a full rebuild or just a retooling of the roster

Last year he seemed to be one of the few players who gave any sort of effort on defense especially towards the end when most players gave up

Had a solid season last year with 6 sacks on limited snaps

Could potentially get him back on a team friendly deal

Has something to prove after having an underwhelming rookie contract, seems like a hungry player

 

Cons-

Questionable character 

Might be fed up with the organization and want out

Rhule might want his own guy

Underwhelming performance for a first round pick

Disappeared pretty much until last season

 

Vernon Butler >>>> Gerald McCoy 

 

What are your guys thoughts?

[jfra78]

I'm not exactly sure how comp picks work, but wouldn't re-signing him keep us from getting one.  Other than that, If we can get him cheap then yea.  

[Khyber53]

While I'd rather have him back over McCoy... it all comes down to price tag, doesn't it. If he's willing to take money like a guy who came in off the bench now and then, sure... If he wants money like a first round pick that has always performed then that's just not going to happen.

Way too many draft picks and money were piled up in the middle of that defensive line last season, just for every running back under the age of 82 to run through it like it was a paper banner at a high school game. While Vernon did turn it on at the end of the season, I've got to ask if that's what it took to get him motivated? And if so, how do you get a guy to have only four games left in a contract year every single week?

In the end, there are so many motivation questions about Vernon (not to mention other character issues) you have to really look at compensatory picks and think there's more value there.

I'm not sure I'd be worried if we jettisoned the whole bunch, including KK and Kyle Love. I'd miss singing "Hunk of Burning Love" each time Kyle got a sack, but that's about it. Those guys could have been playing Go Fish out there during the games and still had about the same results. Gerald McCoy could have fallen on a couple more piles and snagged another sack or two even.

That's a group that if they came in to negotiate new contracts, you'd need to start out by asking them to give back money we paid them last season.

[4Corners]

I loved the way he played against the Colts. Played with emotion and passion and even flipped off some drunken colts fan in the stands. I loved it. 

[kungfoodude]

I wouldn't commit to more than a one year "prove it" deal. Always be wary if guys that only get motivated in contract years.

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I'm not exactly sure how comp picks work, but wouldn't re-signing him keep us from getting one.  Other than that, If we can get him cheap then yea.  

Good point--but I think it is tied to the contract he signs.  I do not worry about that kind of stuff, but there are people on here who know it really well.

About Butler, I made a post earlier this off season that basically supported the idea that he was better than perceived.

In 2019, Butler was in on 40% of the snap counts, largely due to injury to KK.  Before that, he never surpassed a third of the defensive snaps.  So how did he do?

He had 6 sacks, was credited with 3 forced fumbles, had 22 solo tackles (+10 assists) and 7 tackles for loss--in 40% of the snaps.

Compared to Gerald McCoy, Butler had:  1 more sack,  3 more forced fumbles, 7 more solo tackles (-12 assists, but less playing time),  and the same number of tackles for loss, while in on 23% fewer snaps (McCoy played 63%).

 

[joeyxfresco]

Need his gritty attitude on the line. Everyone else was checked out and Butler was giving it his all and still emotionally invested into the season. 

[45catfan]

Nope, that was contract year play and while it was his best year yet, still not that great.  The second contract is the 'money' contract.  All players know this.  For one Butler isn't going to be looking for a home town deal and two, we get a comp pick for him and three, everything indicates he was balling for a big deal.  

Again, nope.

[WarHeel]

Not sure the pros outweigh the cons but not sure we are in a position of luxury to let our entire line walk.

[MHS831]

Every year, he has improved, but the improvement last year was substantial.

I think some team will get a player entering his prime after we developed him for 4 years.  Remember Evan Mathis (G)? 

I think we should offer him a decent deal--in the $5-6m range.

[rippadonn]

With Bradberry, Poe, McCoy leaving the $ is there.

[45catfan]

6 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

Not sure the pros outweigh the cons but not sure we are in a position of luxury to let our entire line walk.

In a rebuild, everything is an option.  The dude was absent for all but one year, the 'money' year and will use those stats to lure some sucker team into a big payday.  I also remember the reason he got so pissed in the Colts game is a guard put his fat a$$ on roller skates backing him up about seven yards beyond the line of scrimmage and then planting him into the turf.

 

[WarPanthers89]

Nope. Get out of here and don’t come back. We had Poe, McCoy and Butler on the line and couldn’t stop a 4th string RB from Looking like an all Pro. Keep Kk and start fresh 

[MHS831]

Six sacks, 22 solo tackles, and 3 forced fumbles in 40% of the defensive snaps?  That is pretty impressive. 

Here is what many are overlooking---ALL of our DTs underperformed.  Coaching? 

Here is what many are overlooking---it takes time to develop skills to become an elite DT.  While Butler is not elite, his numbers in 40% of the snaps show that he could be good--imagine if he played MORE--

At 60% of the snaps, (McCoy had 63%) he would have had 8 sacks, 27 solo tackles, and 4 forced fumbles.  That would be 3 more sacks, 4 more forced fumbles, and 12 more solo tackles than McCoy--and some Huddlers were saying that we needed to re-sign McCoy.