Brandt needs to give more on QB prospects

[SizzleBuzz]

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

22 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

What physical question marks does he have, in your opinion?

Subpar arm strength. Subpar athleticism. Then mentally, he's shown very little ability to go through a progression.

He's basically shown he can succeed when his teammates are far superior to the opposition and he can throw to a wide open first read. That's just the honest truth. 

How does this compare with your analysis of Justin Herbert?

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

How does this compare with your analysis of Justin Herbert?

Very different. I always said Herbert had all the physical tools you could want in a QB.

[pantherclaw]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Subpar arm strength. Subpar athleticism. Then mentally, he's shown very little ability to go through a progression.

He's basically shown he can succeed when his teammates are far superior to the opposition and he can throw to a wide open first read. That's just the honest truth. 

Upon reading what the scouts are writing in his profiles,  you're completely off base on the mental part.  While he doesn't have an elite arm when it comes to arm strength, he has proven he can throw downfield with accuracy.  They rave about his ability within the pocket, and his ability to read the field, make his progressions, and distribution of the ball.  With the tendency to square up his shoulders to the side of the field he is looking. Biggest knock on his throwing right there. 

Yes, he is a pocket passer, and not a duel threat QB.  I understand why people prefer a duel threat QB. 

He's no Watson, but I don't get the hate towards him.  

[pantherclaw]

8 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

How does this compare with your analysis of Justin Herbert?

Two different QBs. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Upon reading what the scouts are writing in his profiles,  you're completely off base on the mental part.  While he doesn't have an elite arm when it comes to arm strength, he has proven he can throw downfield with accuracy.  They rave about his ability within the pocket, and his ability to read the field, make his progressions, and distribution of the ball.  With the tendency to square up his shoulders to the side of the field he is looking. Biggest knock on his throwing right there. 

Yes, he is a pocket passer, and not a duel threat QB.  I understand why people prefer a duel threat QB. 

He's no Watson, but I don't get the hate towards him.  

If we get a duel threat QB I fear he may be imprisoned after one game.

If someone was keeping tabs on how often Jones throws to his first read it would be a LOT.

[Aussie Tank]

If being a duel threat meant SB wins Cam and Brady’s ring totals would be swapped 

[pantherclaw]

32 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If we get a duel threat QB I fear he may be imprisoned after one game.

If someone was keeping tabs on how often Jones throws to his first read it would be a LOT.

If the first read is working, that makes perfect sense. Considering his very low turnover rate, tends to also prove that it works. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

If the first read is working, that makes perfect sense. Considering his very low turnover rate, tends to also prove that it works. 

Yeah, when your first read is wide open and way better than the opposition that tends to work a lot.

[LinvilleGorge]

Listen, I don't knock Jones for taking his first wife open read. Hell, that's what you want your QB to do. I'm just saying that it doesn't really translate to the NFL. Herbert did it at Oregon too. That's what that system called for. He showed he was capable of much more as a rookie in the NFL. My doubts with Herbert were primarily mental. Was he capable of more than Oregon asked him to do? My questions with Jones are much more physical. Can he fit the ball into the tighter NFL windows, particularly outside the hashes and down the field? I don't know and that's why I wouldn't take him into late in the 1st at the earliest.

[Woodie]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LOL! It's not like underthrows typically make highlight reels my man. Just go watch a Bama game. They're there. You asked for an example. I googled "Devonta Smith deep" and clicked on the third link on Google because it was under a minute. Then came the whataboutisms.

Even though I watched several of his games this year, I decided to review his play.  Since I challenged you, it was only fair that I challenge myself as well.  Below is a video of every play Jones made this year...not just the highlights (someone posted it earlier, not sure who).  So far I have looked at every play of his through the first four games, and so far it only reinforced my perspective.  

Was every pass perfect?  No!  Did he always make the right decision? Certainly not! 

However, I made a point to look at every one of his deep balls in those games (30+ air yards).  The vast majority were perfectly thrown, either leading the receiver, or thrown where only the receiver had a chance to catch it.  A couple of throws were underthrown, but the ball had zip and got there quick, Jones just didn't put the ball in the best spot.  On only a couple of balls did the receiver have to slow down at all, but even then it was only slightly.  Several were contested and on multiple occasions he was under duress. 

Some key time stamps you might want to look at (that show him using the arm strength you say he doesn't possess) are 2:36, 7:46, 9:33, and 34:58.  For good measure, look at 27:09 to see a play that disproves your assertion that he cannot throw on the run (even though he doesn't do it very often, it is something he can do).  

Now, to be fair, here are some time stamps where he didn't throw a perfect deep ball: 10:30, 18:45, and 41:00.  Yes, these were slightly underthrown, but they are clearly imperfect throws and not due to an inability to get the ball there.

To be clear, my argument is not that he has a powerful arm and the deep ball will be his bread and butter in the NFL.  It's that while not possessing a cannon, he is capable of making deep, accurate NFL throws, and those throws do not flutter or float.  He will not be the liability deep that Bridgewater has been.  I have no argument for anyone that prefers someone with a cannon and/or is more athletic and is more of a threat to run.  

For the record, I think his bread and butter will be the short to mid range game, but he'll keep defenses honest because he can hit the deep ball.  His style will be similar to the way prime Brees played (not saying he'll be as good as Brees, but that's the style he fits).

 

 

[mav1234]

So when you let a QB set his feet and throw in a clean pocket, even those with average arm strength can get the ball 40 yards down the field.  That is why Bridgewater had numerous 30+ yard completions, including one that went 48 yards in the air and frankly was thrown fine overall (it was probably his BEST throw all year even if his receiver had to slow a bit - 48 yards will do that, lol).

Is Jones' arm better than Teddy's?  Maybe?  It doesn't seem remarkably so.  Scouting reports indicate that is his weakness, that his arm is average and it certainly seems so.  These things are hard to compare.

Certainly he could succeed as an NFL QB, as we've heard various arm strengths can succeed, but I don't think he has the arm strength of the elites, even if he does have 4-5 nice deep throws over the 2.5 hours of clips... 

 

[Khyber53]

18 hours ago, WOW!! said:

What???

Easier to build a wall than a bunch of bumper cars. 

[mrcompletely11]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Subpar arm strength. Subpar athleticism. Then mentally, he's shown very little ability to go through a progression.

He's basically shown he can succeed when his teammates are far superior to the opposition and he can throw to a wide open first read. That's just the honest truth. 

Dude I agree about the athleticism but the one thing every scout is raving about is his ability to process things in an instant at the LOS.  He supposedly is a wizard at that and has pin point accuracy in his mid range throws.   

[ForJimmy]

I’m not too concerned about his arm, but more about how he can handle pressure especially when there is no pocket. Is he quick enough to roll out and make his reads/throws while avoiding pressure? Does he make good decisions under pressure? These are mostly unknowns to me. If he can be as quick as even a Kurt Cousins he might be ok. I’ve seen Cousins avoid sacks and even run for a first. It just requires a lot more recognition and awareness for a QB who is limited athletically like Jones is.