REPORT: Panthers remain interested in Deshaun Watson trade

[Mage]

I'm not saying Watson's career is over, but honestly, you would have to do a lot of mental gymnastics at this point to convince yourself that this many people are accusing Watson of inappropriate behavior and that he is innocent in all of them.

We can safely assume for a fact that Watson reached out to all these women.  We can safely assume for a fact none of these women knew each other.  We can safely assume for a fact the Texans ownership is not going to commit career suicide just to "stick it" to Watson (by far, the most ludicrous theory out there).  We can safely assume the lawyer is not knowingly accepting false information and submitting it to the police, knowing how easily that could backfire.  We can safely assume the lawyer has not reached out to random masseuses and somehow convinced all of them to cobble together similar stories to accuse Watson.

Yes, he has not been proven guilty yet.  And I am sure Watson will deny all wrongdoing.  But it is pretty clear that he has, to whatever extent, been involved in some creepy as hell behavior.  I've been one of the biggest supporters of getting him at all costs but at this point I would not touch him with a 90-foot pole.  Especially when you consider that it is possible none of this started out of the blue in 2020, and one day we could hear more stories if people start to speak up.

And I know what people will say.  "Innocent until proven guilty," "we don't know anything yet," "sleazy lawyer," but I'm telling you... the odds of 12+ different women with no connection to each other all having very similar stories and all of them being lies is just extremely, extremely unlikely.  

With that said, like I said, I don't know what this means for Watson's future.  Rich males win cases all the time.  He could escape this without much more than an NFL suspension and a team still might trade for him.  I ain't gonna pretend like I would stop being a Panthers fan if we traded for Watson, but it would be very uncomfortable rooting for him.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Mage said:

I'm not saying Watson's career is over, but honestly, you would have to do a lot of mental gymnastics at this point to convince yourself that this many people are accusing Watson of inappropriate behavior and that he is innocent in all of them.

We can safely assume for a fact that Watson reached out to all these women.  We can safely assume for a fact none of these women knew each other.  We can safely assume for a fact the Texans ownership is not going to commit career suicide just to "stick it" to Watson (by far, the most ludicrous theory out there).  We can safely assume the lawyer is not knowingly accepting false information and submitting it to the police, knowing how easily that could backfire.  We can safely assume the lawyer has not reached out to random masseuses and somehow convinced all of them to cobble together similar stories to accuse Watson.

Yes, he has not been proven guilty yet.  And I am sure Watson will deny all wrongdoing.  But it is pretty clear that he has, to whatever extent, been involved in some creepy as hell behavior.  I've been one of the biggest supporters of getting him at all costs but at this point I would not touch him with a 90-foot pole.  Especially when you consider that it is possible none of this started out of the blue in 2020, and one day we could hear more stories if people start to speak up.

And I know what people will say.  "Innocent until proven guilty," "we don't know anything yet," "sleazy lawyer," but I'm telling you... the odds of 12+ different women with no connection to each other all having very similar stories and all of them being lies is just extremely, extremely unlikely.  

With that said, like I said, I don't know what this means for Watson's future.  Rich males win cases all the time.  He could escape this without much more than an NFL suspension and a team still might trade for him.  I ain't gonna pretend like I would stop being a Panthers fan if we traded for Watson, but it would be very uncomfortable rooting for him.

At this point, I'm about half expecting the defense to come out with some form of "I have an illness / addiction / pathological issue so technically I did it but it's not really my fault".

Granted, they could still come out fighting tooth and nail but I won't be terribly surprised if there's an element of image rehab involved.

And if that is the case, then no you can't trade for him.

[amcoolio]

What if this is all coordinated fud by Watson, Buzbee and Tepper for Carolina to get Watson for a 7th round draft pick. Then after the trade it comes out that it was all unsubstantiated and Watson was being blackmailed for money and Tepper pays Buzbee under the table.

 

I know, I know it's unlikely and Watson would never go through with something that dirties his name like that

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

What if this is all coordinated fud by Watson, Buzbee and Tepper for Carolina to get Watson for a 7th round draft pick. Then after the trade it comes out that it was all unsubstantiated and Watson was being blackmailed for money and Tepper pays Buzbee under the table.

 

I know, I know it's unlikely and Watson would never go through with something that dirties his name like that

[Monrowed]

19 minutes ago, Mage said:

I'm not saying Watson's career is over, but honestly, you would have to do a lot of mental gymnastics at this point to convince yourself that this many people are accusing Watson of inappropriate behavior and that he is innocent in all of them.

We can safely assume for a fact that Watson reached out to all these women.  We can safely assume for a fact none of these women knew each other.  We can safely assume for a fact the Texans ownership is not going to commit career suicide just to "stick it" to Watson (by far, the most ludicrous theory out there).  We can safely assume the lawyer is not knowingly accepting false information and submitting it to the police, knowing how easily that could backfire.  We can safely assume the lawyer has not reached out to random masseuses and somehow convinced all of them to cobble together similar stories to accuse Watson.

Yes, he has not been proven guilty yet.  And I am sure Watson will deny all wrongdoing.  But it is pretty clear that he has, to whatever extent, been involved in some creepy as hell behavior.  I've been one of the biggest supporters of getting him at all costs but at this point I would not touch him with a 90-foot pole.  Especially when you consider that it is possible none of this started out of the blue in 2020, and one day we could hear more stories if people start to speak up.

And I know what people will say.  "Innocent until proven guilty," "we don't know anything yet," "sleazy lawyer," but I'm telling you... the odds of 12+ different women with no connection to each other all having very similar stories and all of them being lies is just extremely, extremely unlikely.  

With that said, like I said, I don't know what this means for Watson's future.  Rich males win cases all the time.  He could escape this without much more than an NFL suspension and a team still might trade for him.  I ain't gonna pretend like I would stop being a Panthers fan if we traded for Watson, but it would be very uncomfortable rooting for him.

I think that some team will take a flyer on the young man. I believe that Deshaun does have some sort of pattern in his behavior where he has not been held accountable in the past. For this reason he is more aggressive than he should be and his behavior has gotten to the point where it is questionable to out of control. 
Without priors, then he may be given the benefit of a doubt by some team. There may be a dependency on going to rehab for sex addiction along with a ton of community service( Battered Women Shelter, and etc.)

However I do not feel that this goes to trial as that maybe more than his reputation could recover from.

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, Tbe said:

You can have a civil case and a criminal case going at the same time.

Its not either or.

Right but you would not request a grand jury for something you strictly want to keep civil is my point. You would keep it a judge trial, because a civil judge cannot punish/convict someone through criminal case means. Also a judge can decide what evidence to consider and what not, where as a jury can be given all the evidence to make a decision.

My post meant a criminal trial, once charges are taken, are not about settlements etc. 

It is very tough to have a civil and criminal case pending because of self incrimination from either case to the other.

If this is taken criminally, that case usually is resolved first and decides the outcomes of the civil case.

So in theory my hunch is Buzbees wants this case taken criminally through a jury provided with all the evidence and will basically win a civil case based on the result of a criminal case. This seems to me a plan from a lawyer who has solid evidence for a criminal charge because the proof required for criminal charges is exponentially greater than a civil case.

However it is still possible to win a civil case with a failed criminal charge proceeding- but in the case of sexual assault I’d see that as rare.

Of course laws vary greatly with each states, things like cost of damages (not citing the measly $500 that was required to submit the charges), but also the politics of the courts/state as far as whether or not a lawyer will request a jury.

But in general circumstances and most states these are standard proceedings to involve criminal court and not keep it strictly civil.

Edited March 22, 2021 by onmyown

[ClawOn]

Think it's time to lock the thread and move on. This is no longer even potentially Panther related. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

24 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

What if this is all coordinated fud by Watson, Buzbee and Tepper for Carolina to get Watson for a 7th round draft pick. Then after the trade it comes out that it was all unsubstantiated and Watson was being blackmailed for money and Tepper pays Buzbee under the table.

I know, I know it's unlikely and Watson would never go through with something that dirties his name like that

"Unlikely" isn't the word I'd use.

[Monrowed]

3 minutes ago, ClawOn said:

Think it's time to lock the thread and move on. This is no longer even potentially Panther related. 

 

Has there been an update since yesterday? Last I read was that the Panthers were one of the teams that were still interested. If there was an update and it is stated that they are no longer interested, then I would agree.

[ClawOn]

2 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

Has there been an update since yesterday? Last I read was that the Panthers were one of the teams that were still interested. If there was an update and it is stated that they are no longer interested, then I would agree.

No.  But at this point you have to believe that DW hired masseuses from instragram for some logical reason. That there was a good reason not to pursue the extensive options NFL teams provide.

Then, you'd have to believe that at least 22 women are lying for a money grab. If you believe the last part, I'd recommend reading the lawsuit texts and make your own assessment. 

[Monrowed]

3 minutes ago, ClawOn said:

No.  But at this point you have to believe that DW hired masseuses from instragram for some logical reason. That there was a good reason not to pursue the extensive options NFL teams provide.

Then, you'd have to believe that at least 22 women are lying for a money grab. If you believe the last part, I'd recommend reading the lawsuit texts and make your own assessment. 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, ClawOn said:

No.  But at this point you have to believe that DW hired masseuses from instragram for some logical reason. That there was a good reason not to pursue the extensive options NFL teams provide.

Then, you'd have to believe that at least 22 women are lying for a money grab. If you believe the last part, I'd recommend reading the lawsuit texts and make your own assessment. 

Actually there has.

Our own Verge said the "ship has sailed" for now and the Panthers would need for Watson to be exonerated (not likely to happen anytime soon, if it happens at all) before they could agree to trade for him.

John McClain has acknowledged the same. While he says he does believe that Watson could still be traded at some point, it won't be until his issues are resolved which puts the time frame sometime before the trade deadline during the regular season (again, if it happens at all).

Other general sources like Albert Breer and Peter King have echoed the idea that there's really no way anybody can trade for him right now. SI actually just brought out a pretty strongly worded column arguing that point.

And also there was Ben Albright who reportedly listed three teams as having cooled on the idea of trading for Watson, one of them being the Panthers.

So bottom line, whether you believe he's guilty or not guilty, nobody can trade for him right now. Nor should they.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[ClawOn]

Right @Mr. Scotit's not like there would be a formal announcement that we were no longer interested. 

I just don't see the point in the discussion.  I don't know who is starting for us this season, but we can eliminate DW. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, ClawOn said:

Right @Mr. Scotit's not like there would be a formal announcement that we were no longer interested. 

I just don't see the point in the discussion.  I don't know who is starting for us this season, but we can eliminate DW. 

For better or worse Teddy B is starting for us in 2021