Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Some good roster analysis from Gantt


Zod
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

By forgoing the opportunity to draft a franchise QB we did mortgage the future on Darnold. Ultimately, this draft will be judged by A) whether Darnold pans out and B) whether Fields and/or Jones become legit franchise QBs. If Darnold continues to be bad while one or both of them prove legit then oh wee mayne. Not a good look and not good news for the future of the franchise.

 

Pretty much.

We had the opportunity to draft one of:  Fields, Jones, Darnold.  We "drafted" Darnold.  If he fails and one (or both) of the other two succeed, that's a black eye on what would otherwise be considered a successful offseason.  Unfortunately for the front office, QB is the make or break position.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Why is the concept of "opportunity cost" so difficult for some to grasp? 

Because it is all conjecture and opinion until these guys actually take the field and play. I would have been happy with Fields, but I will be shocked if he plays as well as Herbert did as a rookie. Jones was a big no for me so any potential gain from an alternate choice is unknown. Darnold has as much chance at succeeding as Fields, maybe more.

  • Pie 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

Because it is all conjecture and opinion until these guys actually take the field and play. I would have been happy with Fields, but I will be shocked if he plays as well as Herbert did as a rookie. Jones was a big no for me so any potential gain from an alternate choice is unknown. Darnold has as much chance at succeeding as Fields, maybe more.

Opportunity cost is very real. If Darnold continues to suck (honestly fairly likely based on NFL history) and Fields and/or Jones is legit (unknown, but probably pretty decent at least one of them works out based on NFL history of top 15 QB picks) then this decision is not gonna look good in the rearview unless Darnold turns out to be Clausen level bad netting us a top pick who becomes an NFL MVP (definitely the slimmest of odds discussed in this post).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Pretty much.

We had the opportunity to draft one of:  Fields, Jones, Darnold.  We "drafted" Darnold.  If he fails and one (or both) of the other two succeed, that's a black eye on what would otherwise be considered a successful offseason.  Unfortunately for the front office, QB is the make or break position.

Exactly the same as if either of those other 2 failed. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

People lost their minds when I said the Panthers have mortgaged their future on Sam Darnold, then Gantt of Panthers.com writes...

The Panthers did a lot of things over the weekend to make Darnold's life more secure. That's good news, but it also puts the bright light back on their quarterback.

By not drafting one, and picking up Darnold's fifth-year option, they've cast their lot with the former Jets first-rounder, and done their best to insulate him. Now it's on him to prove that he can grow into the job and earn that trust. It may not be New York, but there's still plenty of pressure.

That's NFL political talk for "mortgaging the future".

I don't know about Darnold having the future mortgaged by this, honestly. First, we grab him for basically a second rounder. Secondly, all of the guys we've picked up are foundational pieces that if they work out and he doesn't, they'll still be in place for the next guy.

Darnold's got a rough resume` and we've got to see if the game was too big for him or too big for his old coaching staff (HC, OC, QBC). Since those guys got canned for their efforts, it's a fair gamble that their suckage carried over into his game. The question is, did they damage him beyond repair? Did he ever have it in the first place and was he a bad choice made by bad coaches and a bad GM? 

We don't know yet. Rhule seems to think he can fix the mess and that Darnold is the kind of guy he's looking for. This year and next will be relatively cheap if we get a decent to good QB for our efforts, and it'll be a steal if he's better than that. If he's disappointing, which honestly there is a chance of, we're back to picking high and we're on the hook for $22 million over two years, basically no worse than we were with Teddy. 

I sure wish I could read the tea leaves and see where this will end up, but I can't. Just going to have to trust the coach and the process. We have to believe that Rhule won't be taking all seven years of his contract to build a winning squad. Don't we?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Wow reading that article the only thing that came to mind is this roster has really changed from a few years ago. 

Is Shaq the only player left on the team from 2015 if JJ retires/is cut?

Edited by t96
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think "mortgage the future" is confusing people.  The basic premise is that we had the opportunity to "draft" one of three players - in actual fact we could have had two of three - and we chose Darnold.  That choice is one that Fitts and Rhule will have to live with / answer for if it goes badly.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Opportunity cost is very real. If Darnold continues to suck (honestly fairly likely based on NFL history) and Fields and/or Jones is legit (unknown, but probably pretty decent at least one of them works out based on NFL history of top 15 QB picks) then this decision is not gonna look good in the rearview unless Darnold turns out to be Clausen level bad netting us a top pick who becomes an NFL MVP (definitely the slimmest of odds discussed in this post).

Opportunity cost isn't one sided. There was an opportunity to get a QB the staff believes is as good of a prospect as the draft options as well as another top prospect. Opportunity cost pertains to that outcome as well. Rhule pretty clearly explained this.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, t96 said:

Is Shaq the only player left on the team from 2015 if JJ retires/is cut?

I don't think it's a matter of "if" with JJ. As soon as we drafted a LS in the 6th round, JJ was basically gone unless this kid forgets how to snap a football between now and TC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

 

People lost their minds when I said the Panthers have mortgaged their future on Sam Darnold, then Gantt of Panthers.com writes...

The Panthers did a lot of things over the weekend to make Darnold's life more secure. That's good news, but it also puts the bright light back on their quarterback.

 

The spotlight being on the starting QB does not confirm any notion of mortgaging the future.

In this case simply making a draft selection is mortgaging the future. This is such an overdramatic line of reasoning.

  • Pie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We didn’t just lose the picks if he doesn’t play well. We lost the opportunity to take a young QB with our top 10 picks plus whatever it costs next year to move up and grab the one we want. Even if he plays bad, I think there is too much talent for us to be picking on the top 5 next year where the QBs will be drafted. I do get the mindset of thinking Horn plus Darnold is better than risking the 8th pick on Fields who could bust also. I’m just not as sold on Darnold as our staff is...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot. After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture. The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window. The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins. The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team. If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.
    • Really impressed how the bottom six have looked the past couple games
    • 1st ⭐️ Big Bussi - 17 saves, .941 save % 2nd ⭐️ Logan Dankoven - 2 assists, 3 SOG, +3, 16:25 TOI 3rd ⭐️ Ghost Bear - 1 goal, 3 blocked shots, +2, 18:48 TOI
×
×
  • Create New...