Darnold's QBR was higher than Tannehill's

[SBBlue]

5 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

But QBR routinely fails at what it sets out to do, which is exactly my point. Why is Ryan Mallet rated as higher than the NFL MVP in 2015? Why is Lamar Jackson considered a great QB why Tom Brady shows up in the Top10 once?

 

26 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

 You just made a bunch of posts trying to discredit QBR and then say you have no issue with it.

How long is this going to go on?

 

[iamhubby1]

19 minutes ago, Snake said:

Jackson hasn't really shown her can even be a good #2 yet and after that its even more questions. We are early in a complete rebuild of that unit.

 

I get it. You are in the, we have very little talent crowd. I'm in the, we have more talent than we have had in quite some time crowd.  

 

I am optimistic for what this D can accomplish this year. Whereas, you, not so much.

[jayboogieman]

2 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

You said bad QB play. Now you are adding qualifiers. I think the bad, has clouded your memory of the good.

 

Jake gad 5 good years before Tommy Jone took him.

Steve had 5 good years.

Cam had 6 before the wheels started falling off.

 

That is still 16 years of good QB play.

Cam's stats

Jake's stats

Steve's stats

There are some ok to a few good years in their stats, but not a lot. For comparison, here are stats from four really good QBs.

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Patrick Mahomes

The Panthers really haven't had good QB play for most of their existence. It's been average to maybe above average at best.

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Cam's stats

Jake's stats

Steve's stats

There are some ok to a few good years in their stats, but not a lot. For comparison, here are stats from four really good QBs.

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Patrick Mahomes

The Panthers really haven't had good QB play for most of their existence. It's been average to maybe above average at best.

Just like the teams record reflects.

[MasterAwesome]

46 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

But QBR routinely fails at what it sets out to do, which is exactly my point. Why is Ryan Mallet rated as higher than the NFL MVP in 2015? Why is Lamar Jackson considered a great QB why Tom Brady shows up in the Top10 once?

Where are you getting the Ryan Mallett > MVP Cam Newton QBR stat?  I am not seeing that.  I see him at 55 and Cam at 61 in 2015, which you can definitely argue is WAY closer than it should be but I don't know enough about Ryan Mallett's 2015 season, i.e. his o-line performance, opposing teams' defenses, etc. which again, are all factored into QBR.

Tom Brady I imagine has been dinged on QBR for playing in the worst division in football for almost his entire career.  Opposing level of competition is one of those metrics that's factored into it.

As for Lamar Jackson:

54 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

QBR is supposed to account for things like the strength of the opposing defense, the difficulty of passes, if the QB was pressured during their throw, their rushing stats, whether they’re piling garbage time stats, reducing weight for YAC, etc.

I imagine that has a ton to do with it.

[jayboogieman]

21 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Just like the teams record reflects.

Yep. The Panthers have had a little success, but for the most part the team and QBs haven't. I wish more people would realize that it's ok to admit while still being a fan instead of being a homer all the time.

[panthers55]

On 6/7/2021 at 12:52 PM, SBBlue said:

I agree, and would add two things. 

QBR should reflect decision making to an extent.  If you are seeing the field, following your reads, hitting open receivers, not throwing ints, that is going to be reflected in a higher QBR.  I understand QBR is not a perfect measure.  I would argue Tannehills decision making was on par with  Darnolds.  Tannehill threw 9 ints in 11 games that last year, to Darnolds 11 ints in 12 games. 

Secondly, Scheme affects decision making ability.  If the design sucks, the reads suck, and its 4th down, you try to make something happen.  Also Gase has been accused of discouraging audibles because he doesn't trust his QBs post Manning.

Scheme has a ton to do with decision-making. Good schemes are considered quarterback friendly because they simplify reads, give the QB multiple choices and usually someone is open or check downs are available. In blitz scenarios good schemes have hot reads, and can move players around to take advantage of the blitz instead of being victim to it.  Is New Orleans that great or with Brees knowing where to go with the ball and having Kamara as your check down makes any line look good when the ball is out in under 2 seconds.

[PootieNunu]

QBR is a useless stat created by a useless network. 

[pantherclaw]

On 6/7/2021 at 12:51 PM, hepcat said:

I think they didn't keep a backup plan on the roster for a reason. They must like next years prospects better than Justin Fields if that was the case

Stop with the stupidity.  

[bythenbrs]

On 6/7/2021 at 12:35 PM, frankw said:

I've focused less on a question of his ability or his intangibles and more on the decision making. We know he was in an unfavorable position with the roster and the staff. He still didn't make the best decisions with the football and had issues fully reading the field at times missing receivers. The arm isn't a question. The drive isn't a question. The leadership isn't a question. Now the staff and surroundings are not a question as long as the line holds up. Whether or not he takes the next step in processing on the field is what will separate Darnold from the Panthers lengthy list of failed quarterbacks who had potential yet were unable to put it all together ultimately. In that aspect there is a very long list across the league of guys who couldn't do that despite their physical talents.

I see Darnold spending a lot of time watching film, receiving very detailed instruction from both Sean Ryan and Brady on what they want him to do in various situations.  I think the training wheels come off around game three of the regular season and we see whether Sam has put the ghosts of the past behind him.  He’s certainly capable...

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

Yep. The Panthers have had a little success, but for the most part the team and QBs haven't. I wish more people would realize that it's ok to admit while still being a fan instead of being a homer all the time.

 

Yeah, because you are right, and the rest of us are wrong.

 

Let's just call this like it is. Because the Panthers have never had sustained success, it is the QBs fault. Right?

 

I mean, it can't be bad coaching, or iffy GMs. It has to be the QBs. lol I guess outside of a few players, all our talent is bottom shelf.

 

And I would much rather have "Homer Glasses" than downplay every player we have ever had. Optimism > Pessimism (Realism). 

 

Lastly, picking 3 HOFers to make your point seems fair to me.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by iamhubby1

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

I see Darnold spending a lot of time watching film, receiving very detailed instruction from both Sean Ryan and Brady on what they want him to do in various situations.  I think the training wheels come off around game three of the regular season and we see whether Sam has put the ghosts of the past behind him.  He’s certainly capable...

I expect they will give him the works in preseason just to see what he does. Then when the season starts use lots of short passes, screens and swing passes to get him in a rhythm and boost his confidence. If the defense can bail him out by not surrendering points when he does throw a pick it gives him the confidence to bounce back and keep pounding as opposed to rolling over in New York. The easier start to the season should be very helpful this year.

[Madwolf]

I think Darnold will do okay for the first half of the season. I think the last stretch is what will really test him, and the fan bases loyalty to the guy.

You could really argue that from the New England game on in week 9, the Panthers face a fairly tough test through the air each week outside of the Falcons in week 14.

[jayboogieman]

3 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Yeah, because you are right, and the rest of us are wrong.

 

Let's just call this like it is. Because the Panthers have never had sustained success, it is the QBs fault. Right?

 

I mean, it can't be bad coaching, or iffy GMs. It has to be the QBs. lol I guess outside of a few players, all our talent is bottom shelf.

 

And I would much rather have "Homer Glasses" than downplay every player we have ever had. Optimism > Pessimism (Realism). 

 

 

The QBs are partly at fault just like the GMs, coaches, and rest of the rosters have been. The QB gets a larger share of the credit or blame because the offense runs through him. He is one of two players that touches the ball every snap while on offense. That's just the way the game is played.

Yes, the Panthers have had a lot of bottom shelf talent to go along with some of the good talent they have had over the years. Until the new regime came in, the Panthers focused on the Dline, linebackers, and runningbacks more than anywhere else. Those three areas are also where the team has had most of its better players too.

Cam was a good QB for the most part during his time here. Jake was above average to fairly good for a while, Steve was average to maybe above average, and all the others were meh at best. That's not downplaying them either. It's giving an honest assessment that you don't agree with.

The Panthers have rarely put a lot into the position. That's probably because previous regimes and ownership wanted old school defense and running than a QB that could carry the team. Cam being the exception and then they didn't give him a lot to work with.