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Bill Barnwell ranks the Panthers offseason as 7th worst


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6 hours ago, Madwolf said:

To us, yes. When we talk about national evaluation of this off-season after this year, it will take into account how Fields and Bridgewater played compared to Darnold in the 2021 season.

Darnold can play better than 1, both, or neither and still have a good season. But people will judge if it was the "right move" from the outside looking in based on how they do compared to each other. Fields can win ROTY, and beat out Darnold statistically, but the Panthers could also go 11-6 and earn a playoff birth with Darnold putting up solid numbers and it still be a win for the Panthers.

Of course.    I'm not disputing that.

I'm just talking as a fan that will only concern himself with how the QB on my team does and not what other QBs on other teams do.   

Fields and Teddy do not exist as far as I'm concerned.

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The thing about the Huddle is that it can sometimes become a bit of an echo chamber. Darnold has looked like poop for a long time, and it's a long-shot that he pans out. But what can happen on the Huddle is fans keep talking him up and pooping anyone who doesn't agree so much that we start thinking the offseason was a grand slam. The offseason was either a home run, or a disaster depending all on Darnold. It's all resting on Darnold, and he's a long-shot. If Darnold flops, then the entire 2021 season is wiped out. We get nothing but a bad season. That is a disaster.

Horn, the other pieces, trading down, none of that matters at all if Darnold is bad. We will get slaughtered if Darnold blows like he has his entire pro career. Horn and the other draft picks won't do anything to stop a losing 2021 season if Darnold is a bust.

Instead of having Fileds as a backup plan, we are locked into a big contract with Darnold. So Darnold not only has the potential to make 2021 a wasted season, but he can hurt our cap in 2022. 

Was the offseason a huge disaster, or a home-run? The scary part is we have no clue. No idea. It's ALL riding on Darnold. If he flops, then 2021 is gone down the toilet, and 2022 will be in jeopardy of being terrible as well. 

What do I think? I'm on the hot seat and I have to make a prediction. Darnold is not as bad as he was with the Jets, but he's not good enough to be a star in the league and lead us to a SB. That's is my prediction. He's so-so and our record will be middle of the pack. That's my optimistic take. A mediocre Darnold might as well be as bad as a terrible Darnold. Both will lead us nowhere in the long run.

The longshot. Darnold is a superstar who can lead us to the SB. That's the only way this offseason was great. CB is not going to do poop for us without a great QB. It's all or nothing.

 

Edited by pantherj
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10 hours ago, pantherj said:

The thing about the Huddle is that it can sometimes become a bit of an echo chamber. Darnold has looked like poop for a long time, and it's a long-shot that he pans out. But what can happen on the Huddle is fans keep talking him up and pooping anyone who doesn't agree so much that we start thinking the offseason was a grand slam. The offseason was either a home run, or a disaster depending all on Darnold. It's all resting on Darnold, and he's a long-shot. If Darnold flops, then the entire 2021 season is wiped out. We get nothing but a bad season. That is a disaster.

Horn, the other pieces, trading down, none of that matters at all if Darnold is bad. We will get slaughtered if Darnold blows like he has his entire pro career. Horn and the other draft picks won't do anything to stop a losing 2021 season if Darnold is a bust.

Instead of having Fileds as a backup plan, we are locked into a big contract with Darnold. So Darnold not only has the potential to make 2021 a wasted season, but he can hurt our cap in 2022. 

Was the offseason a huge disaster, or a home-run? The scary part is we have no clue. No idea. It's ALL riding on Darnold. If he flops, then 2021 is gone down the toilet, and 2022 will be in jeopardy of being terrible as well. 

What do I think? I'm on the hot seat and I have to make a prediction. Darnold is not as bad as he was with the Jets, but he's not good enough to be a star in the league and lead us to a SB. That's is my prediction. He's so-so and our record will be middle of the pack. That's my optimistic take. A mediocre Darnold might as well be as bad as a terrible Darnold. Both will lead us nowhere in the long run.

The longshot. Darnold is a superstar who can lead us to the SB. That's the only way this offseason was great. CB is not going to do poop for us without a great QB. It's all or nothing.

 

A good franchise can never look at a year as a loss like that though. You have to be able to rip every single ounce out of every off-season and season you can.

While I'm not thrilled with what it costs to obtain Darnold, regardless of Darnold himself, I don't think he's a awful gamble. And frankly the Panthers finally having someone you have to watch out for in the secondary for the first time since Norman left will be super important as well as other holes we filled.

I don't believe this off-season makes or breaks the future of this franchise with this young core, just because we don't land a QB or not. I do think whiffing on one in the draft could have been worse though.

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10 hours ago, pantherj said:

The thing about the Huddle is that it can sometimes become a bit of an echo chamber. Darnold has looked like poop for a long time, and it's a long-shot that he pans out. But what can happen on the Huddle is fans keep talking him up and pooping anyone who doesn't agree so much that we start thinking the offseason was a grand slam. The offseason was either a home run, or a disaster depending all on Darnold. It's all resting on Darnold, and he's a long-shot. If Darnold flops, then the entire 2021 season is wiped out. We get nothing but a bad season. That is a disaster.

Horn, the other pieces, trading down, none of that matters at all if Darnold is bad. We will get slaughtered if Darnold blows like he has his entire pro career. Horn and the other draft picks won't do anything to stop a losing 2021 season if Darnold is a bust.

Instead of having Fileds as a backup plan, we are locked into a big contract with Darnold. So Darnold not only has the potential to make 2021 a wasted season, but he can hurt our cap in 2022. 

Was the offseason a huge disaster, or a home-run? The scary part is we have no clue. No idea. It's ALL riding on Darnold. If he flops, then 2021 is gone down the toilet, and 2022 will be in jeopardy of being terrible as well. 

What do I think? I'm on the hot seat and I have to make a prediction. Darnold is not as bad as he was with the Jets, but he's not good enough to be a star in the league and lead us to a SB. That's is my prediction. He's so-so and our record will be middle of the pack. That's my optimistic take. A mediocre Darnold might as well be as bad as a terrible Darnold. Both will lead us nowhere in the long run.

The longshot. Darnold is a superstar who can lead us to the SB. That's the only way this offseason was great. CB is not going to do poop for us without a great QB. It's all or nothing.

 

Yeah as great as Horn may be he won’t win us games and can easily be negated by smart Defensive Coordinators. 

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14 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Yeah as great as Horn may be he won’t win us games and can easily be negated by smart Defensive Coordinators. 

I assume you mean offensive coordinators.

Its not just Horn...its what Horn in the scheme allows us to do.  With Horn, AJ, healthy Donte and moving Chin back....we can blitz and play much more man coverage now.  This defense should tear up.

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If, and its a big if, Darnold becomes a franchise QB, this will be considered one of the best offseasons in Panthers history. If not thee best.  

We acquired so  much talent across all levels on both sides of the ball.  TBH I did not think this was possible.  A QB, DBs LBs, DL, WRs, TE's and yes even OL.  In one offseason. 

On paper, I think we have more depth than any time in recent memory.

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I've posted a thread before years ago that Barnwell his great disdain for the organization, even in our 15-1 year he was highly skeptical the whole way through and even said the Cardinals were a better team in the NFC IIRC.

I think it has to do with Cam's comments to the female reporter (Bill is a big feminist) and Richardson's antics. He hasn't been objective about the Panthers since. He also picked a slew of defensive rookies before Jeremy Chinn last year in his end of year awards

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2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I assume you mean offensive coordinators.

Its not just Horn...its what Horn in the scheme allows us to do.  With Horn, AJ, healthy Donte and moving Chin back....we can blitz and play much more man coverage now.  This defense should tear up.

Whoops you are right. 😅I hope so. I really do. 

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On 6/10/2021 at 11:31 AM, glenwo2 said:

What clean pockets did he have with the Jets?   🤔

And having ANY type of success throwing more TDs and than INTs on that team (which he's done) was not "middling".   It was a miracle.

You can only take so much battering before it affects your play.  Sure he may have had some clean pockets, but he just had the tar beaten out him. 

 

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21 hours ago, pantherj said:

The thing about the Huddle is that it can sometimes become a bit of an echo chamber.

Yes, it can.

Quote

Was the offseason a huge disaster, or a home-run? The scary part is we have no clue. No idea. It's ALL riding on Darnold.

A lot always rides on the QB.

Quote

He's so-so and our record will be middle of the pack. That's my optimistic take.

So your optimistic take  is like 7-8 wins?

Quote

The longshot. Darnold is a superstar who can lead us to the SB. That's the only way this offseason was great. 

We have to go to the SB this year or the offseason isn't great?  Your reserve the word, great, for much more special occasions than I do.

The line I think is at 7.5 right now.

So below that, in my mind, is a disappointment.

Realistic is like 7-8 wins.

Optimistic for me, 8-10 in wildcard contention.

If we hit 8 or more wins, and beat a winning/playoff team at some point during the season, setting the stage for playoffs the following year, I would say we had a great offseason.

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Brown, Chinn, Matos, Pride, Horn, Marshall, Christensen, Hubbard...that’s a nice haul in Rhule’s first couple of drafts. I’m thinking heavy OL next year. 

I would’ve gone Fields instead of Horn, however Horn is like an ultra rare CB prospect so it’s ok 

Adding Reddick, Bouye this year was solid. Again I like what Rhule is cooking so far. 

Edited by Rubi
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3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Yes, it can.

A lot always rides on the QB.

So your optimistic take  is like 7-8 wins?

We have to go to the SB this year or the offseason isn't great?  Your reserve the word, great, for much more special occasions than I do.

The line I think is at 7.5 right now.

So below that, in my mind, is a disappointment.

Realistic is like 7-8 wins.

Optimistic for me, 8-10 in wildcard contention.

If we hit 8 or more wins, and beat a winning/playoff team at some point during the season, setting the stage for playoffs the following year, I would say we had a great offseason.

Goodness no we don't have to go to the SB this season for the offseason to have been great. Darnold has to look like the kind of QB who can lead us to the SB eventually this season. We'll know early on what Darnold is or isn't at around the same time into the season that we knew Teddy would never lead us to a SB.

If Darnold is an average level QB for us then we could see about 7-8 wins or so imo. But to me Darnold being as good as average is me being optimistic. The only evidence that we have is that he was a below average QB, and him moving up to an average QB would be a likely realistic outcome. He's on a better team with a better coaching staff, so an improvement is perfectly realistic but not a given. He could be awful. Who knows.

If we're knocking on the door of the playoffs this season, and beating really good teams, then that would be a huge win for this franchise and our future. That would mean Danold is not just a middle of the road QB, or worse, but a top QB who can lead this team to a SB win in the future.

What really matters is what Darnold looks like on the field for us. What tier of QB is he? Is he a Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Arron Rogers, Ben Roethlisberger, Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Partrick Mahomes, talent level QB? Yes or no? We'll find out this season. If he's not, then we don't have a QB who is going to lead us to a SB win. That means lowered expectations for everyone, and just hoping for a playoff win here or there. And if he's trash, then 2021 and 2022 will be trash for us.

Winning the SB is about have a good team with a great QB. The days of winning the SB with a JAG QB ended 20 something years ago with the rule changes. Now you need a great QB or you wander around in QB limbo.

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On 6/9/2021 at 10:57 PM, Peon Awesome said:

in no universe does the 20th pick, a future 1st and 2 4ths get you the #1 pick. So to say that us not trading with Chicago means we thought Horn was more valuable than a #1 overall pick is absurd. 

He did some true mental gymnastics.  First you have to throw out the Jimmy Johnson draft values and use the Chase Stuart numbers.  Then you have to assume that the value of picks in the future are the same as the value of picks today (which they aren't).   He also assumed we were given this offer, you know, because they must have.

If you use his logic of taking the last pick in the future rounds you have picks 20, 32, 144, 164, you get values of 15.5, 12.5, 3 and 2.1 for a total of 33.1, not 33.5 as he reported.  Even so, a  first rounder is 34.6 on the Stuart chart, so just about a 1st rounder.

If you use the JJ chart you get 850, 590, 34, 25.8 for a sum a 1499.8 which equals a number 7 pick.

Even if we did get this offer, it was NOT worth it to take it.

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