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Zod

By Zod,
in Carolina Panthers

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glenwo2 Grand Master

glenwo2

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

Crazy how Sam is making stuff happen even with this handicap. 

It's not all that crazy since he's used to playing behind sh-tty O-lines.

Remember that he once beat this Dallas team with the friggin' Jets in 2019...

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Bartin Collaborator

Bartin

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, SBBlue said:

You are exactly right.  Time to throw makes a line look better or worse.  Sam has the 8th HIGHEST pocket time in the league at 2.4s....he has taken more time to throw than MOST of the league. 

So when Matt Ryan takes 2.3s and still has more sacks and hits than we do, what does that say about his line?  Do you want the Atlanta line?  Because according to PFF, you do.

I’m fairly certain that time to throw is an awful stat at least in regards to the OL. The clock goes until the ball is thrown or you are sacked. So someone throwing quick slants gets put down at 1 second no matter how well the line would have blocked and a QB that dodges a free rusher then scrambles around for a bit until throwing the ball away goes down as 4 seconds. Circa 2014, Wilson and Cam were well over 3 seconds and they both had awful lines while Brady would be close to 2 seconds with a great line. It’s so context required that I just ignore it at this point.

PBWR which is the Y axis in the OP graph is also a weird one. A win is blocking for 2.5 or more seconds and a loss is blocking for 2.4 or less so it’s binary. A 2.4 second block is the same thing as whiffing a block. Same for a 2.5 second block versus a block that lasts 5 seconds. It’s also done purely by computer player location tracking which is based on defender proximity to the QB and is imperfect at best based on what I’ve seen on the NFL’s players tracking.

I also don’t love PFF either but I don’t want to get into that right now.

Absolutely none of this is meant to say that our line is great because it is not, it is average at best, but I just hate a lot of these stats. Rant over.

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1of10Charnatives Mentor

1of10Charnatives

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, joemac said:

I don't get that at all.  Sam's only been sacked like what, 4 or 5 times in 3 games?  We've consistently moved the ball and scored points.  I agree they are bad, but not THAT bad....

If you watch the games, we are moving the ball because Sam consistently gets it out before the rush has a chance to get there. Who is our big deep threat? Robbie. Why are his targets way down this year? Because they have more and better options on short to intermediate throws and the coaching staff knows our OL can't block long enough to throw deep.

We are that bad. It's just Darnold and the coaching staff have done a great job of compensating for it.

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Don't you see, the Jets and Bears with their 15 sacks each clearly have superior lines.   Look at the chart.  ESPN and PFF are experts.  Don't look at stupid things like sacks and QB hits.    Our OL sucks.  We should insult them and cheer when they get injured.  That's what good fans do.  /sarc

Our QB moves well under pressure. 

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SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Bartin said:

I’m fairly certain that time to throw is an awful stat at least in regards to the OL. The clock goes until the ball is thrown or you are sacked. So someone throwing quick slants gets put down at 1 second no matter how well the line would have blocked and a QB that dodges a free rusher then scrambles around for a bit until throwing the ball away goes down as 4 seconds. Circa 2014, Wilson and Cam were well over 3 seconds and they both had awful lines while Brady would be close to 2 seconds with a great line. It’s so context required that I just ignore it at this point.

PBWR which is the Y axis in the OP graph is also a weird one. A win is blocking for 2.5 or more seconds and a loss is blocking for 2.4 or less so it’s binary. A 2.4 second block is the same thing as whiffing a block. Same for a 2.5 second block versus a block that lasts 5 seconds. It’s also done purely by computer player location tracking which is based on defender proximity to the QB and is imperfect at best based on what I’ve seen on the NFL’s players tracking.

I also don’t love PFF either but I don’t want to get into that right now.

Absolutely none of this is meant to say that our line is great because it is not, it is average at best, but I just hate a lot of these stats. Rant over.

I agree looking at a single stat is deceptive, you need to watch the games and look across stats.  From watching the game, the line seems mediocre and the stats confirm that.  From looking at the stats, at least in pass pro, we look slightly below average as well.  In any case, we aren't the worst as the graph on this thread would suggest.
 

 

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, SBBlue said:

You are exactly right.  Time to throw makes a line look better or worse.  Sam has the 8th HIGHEST pocket time in the league at 2.4s....he has taken more time to throw than MOST of the league. 

So when Matt Ryan takes 2.3s and still has more sacks and hits than we do, what does that say about his line?  Do you want the Atlanta line?  Because according to PFF, you do.

It says Matt is a statue and Sam is elusive. 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted

Who cares what pff thinks of Brian Burns? He's one of the best pass rushers in the league and our defense is very good obv that isn't a concern. The oline on the other hand is and could very well prevent this years team from accomplishing their goals no matter what angle you want to take to fit the narrative they might not be as bad as we think. I hope they are up to the task Sunday.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I agree looking at a single stat is deceptive, you need to watch the games and look across stats.  From watching the game, the line seems mediocre and the stats confirm that.  From looking at the stats, at least in pass pro, we look slightly below average as well.  In any case, we aren't the worst as the graph on this thread would suggest.
 

 

According to your chart we are 24th in pressure % allowed.  That is bottom 10.  That is bad, not slightly below average.  People get to caught up in exact rankings arguing over a one team being 25th and another 29th.  They are both bad.

Divide the list into thirds, top third is good, middle third is average, bottom third is bad.

We are bad.  Add in the fact that our yards before contact rushing is 31st.  We clearly have one of the worst performing lines in the NFL.

 

 

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1usctrojan Proficient

1usctrojan

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

It says Matt is a statue and Sam is elusive. 

It’s those basketball moves….from his friend, QB Josh Allen, The Athletic:

 

Josh Allen likes to brag on Sam Darnold.

The Buffalo Bills quarterback, who trains with Darnold near the latter’s Southern California home in the offseason, remembers the time Darnold matched Golden State Warriors Klay Thompson, one of the best perimeter snipers in NBA history, nearly shot for shot during a friendly shootaround game a few years ago.

Allen describes Darnold’s spirals in terms that almost defy the laws of physics and says Darnold is an up-and-comer on the golf course less than two years after he took up the sport.

When these tales of sporting achievements were relayed to Darnold, the Panthers’ new quarterback downplayed the mano-a-mano shootout with Thompson and sought to debunk the golf myth entirely — while also taking a good-natured jab at Allen.

“I don’t know who told you that. Josh definitely didn’t tell you that,” Darnold said. “I’m not good at all. He’s better than me, but I wouldn’t say he’s good by any means.”

Allen isn’t the first person to rave about Darnold’s well-rounded athleticism. He starred in three sports at San Clemente High and famously agreed to join his sister, Franki, in a doubles volleyball tournament despite having never played. The two wound up placing in the tournament.

“Sam’s an athlete,” said former Panthers quarterback Will Grier, who played golf with Darnold in the spring. “He probably plays every sport, and he’s good at it. Good at everything he does, one of those kind of guys.”

 

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glenwo2 Grand Master

glenwo2

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, 1usctrojan said:

It’s those basketball moves….from his friend, QB Josh Allen, The Athletic:

 

Josh Allen likes to brag on Sam Darnold.

The Buffalo Bills quarterback, who trains with Darnold near the latter’s Southern California home in the offseason, remembers the time Darnold matched Golden State Warriors Klay Thompson, one of the best perimeter snipers in NBA history, nearly shot for shot during a friendly shootaround game a few years ago.

Allen describes Darnold’s spirals in terms that almost defy the laws of physics and says Darnold is an up-and-comer on the golf course less than two years after he took up the sport.

When these tales of sporting achievements were relayed to Darnold, the Panthers’ new quarterback downplayed the mano-a-mano shootout with Thompson and sought to debunk the golf myth entirely — while also taking a good-natured jab at Allen.

“I don’t know who told you that. Josh definitely didn’t tell you that,” Darnold said. “I’m not good at all. He’s better than me, but I wouldn’t say he’s good by any means.”

Allen isn’t the first person to rave about Darnold’s well-rounded athleticism. He starred in three sports at San Clemente High and famously agreed to join his sister, Franki, in a doubles volleyball tournament despite having never played. The two wound up placing in the tournament.

“Sam’s an athlete,” said former Panthers quarterback Will Grier, who played golf with Darnold in the spring. “He probably plays every sport, and he’s good at it. Good at everything he does, one of those kind of guys.”

 

Well damn.  I never knew this about Sam.  😲

I thought he was just good at Football.

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