It's not that they don't care

[L-TownCat]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Does anyone really think if he gets another year, he'll suddenly change his ways and methods and become competent?

[Cary Kollins]

Let’s not forget who showed up to Rhule’s house along with Tepper…one Marty Hurney. 
 

In other words, Hurney Magick is still flowing through this version of the Panthers franchise in the form of the Rhule Regime.

 

Tepper needs to let football people not named Hurney steer the ship from now on.

 

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

Let’s not forget who showed up to Rhule’s house along with Tepper…one Marty Hurney. 
 

In other words, Hurney Magick is still flowing through this version of the Panthers franchise in the form of the Rhule Regime.

 

Tepper needs to let football people not named Hurney steer the ship from now on.

 

And at least 3 degrees of separation from Hurney. People hired by Hurney or by people Hurney hired do not qualify as 'trustable football people'. 

[trueblade]

4 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Considering the amount of stroke that Rhule was given, wouldn't that mean that Fitterer was probably Rhule's choice for GM?

I would say that's plausible. It's also at least plausible that Rhule's level of power and roster control might have influenced someone like Adam Peters (who I was high on) to withdraw from consideration and return to SF.

[Cary Kollins]

16 minutes ago, Waldo said:

And at least 3 degrees of separation from Hurney. People hired by Hurney or by people Hurney hired do not qualify as 'trustable football people'. 

Tepper needs to hire the people that clear out bed bugs do the same for Hurney.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, trueblade said:

I would say that's plausible. It's also at least plausible that Rhule's level of power and roster control might have influenced someone like Adam Peters (who I was high on) to withdraw from consideration and return to SF.

Peters was apparently offered a raise / promotion to Assistant GM.

Ed Dodds was more likely the guy who didn't like the power structure.

Not a problem to Fitterer, though. For him, it was no change from what he was part of in Seattle.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

It doesn’t get exponentially worse. To get that bad we’d have to line up 5 paper bags or a 15 foot speed bump.

Also, you are making an insinuation that Rhule and Fitt tried to upgrade the OL. They didn’t. We spent barely any of our draft capital on OL. Brown was already considered a project who likely wasn’t playing this year. We signed shitty stop gaps so we didn’t have to spend the draft capital we really needed to spend to actually fix it.

I don’t trust they know how to pick the right guys, cough Trey Smith cough, but let’s be honest. They haven’t tried to fix it.

Sure they did, and between Erving, Elflein, Christensen and Brown they likely believed they had upgraded the OL.

Lack of effort could actually have turned out better. Effort paired with incompetence is something far, far worse.

[pantherj]

It's a blueprint issue. Rhule didn't think QB - O-line, then the rest. He thought defense defense defense, and some vet QB. He thought his system and brilliant coordinators would make up the difference. We got slaughtered as a result.

Edited December 20, 2021 by pantherj

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

That’s not fixing anything. From Brown’s treatment he was 100% not going to play this year and honestly, neither was BC. They slapped two bandaids on the OL thinking they could keep it afloat like last year. Sorry, but there was no effort to make the OL good. 11 picks and you go 3rd and 6th and skipped over a ton of good OL. This was akin to what Fitterer was exposed to in terms of Russell Wilson’s OLs. They had Okung and let him go after 4 years with Wilson. His next best OL was Unger and he was let go after 3 years with Wilson. His OLs were typically trash after his first couple years. Seems like we had the same mantra and maybe we just finally work up.

You’ve seen the amount of money and picks we’ve spent on QB and CB. We’ve spent nothing close to that on OL. It’s a lack of effort along with also not seeing great value/OL right smack in front of you. I don’t have any faith that we’ll fix the OL but I suspect we will invest more than two shitty FAs and a 3rd and a 6th in two drafts.

In their opinion, it is.

That's the problem.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It is? Didn’t you say they are prioritizing OL as the top thing in the off season? By  definition doesn’t that mean they didn’t? It’s not just semantics.

I’d bet we go LT in the first and then take a few more in day 3. We’ll also likely waste a large amount of cap on FAs which will negate all our comp pick potential.

Just some facts when we needed 1 starting CB, 1 starting QB and 4 starting OL:

QB: Spent/guaranteed $60M in cap and spent 2nd, 3rd (Teddy cancelled Bradberry’s comp) and 4th round picks. The 6th rounders cancel out.

CB: Used 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks, spent money to add Bouye and Gilmore.

OL: Used 3rd and 6th and spent money on Erving/Elflein.

For far less starting needs we sure used way more resources on QBs snd CBs. We were finishing our defense and trying to find a QB and we put bandaids on the OL. As little faith as I have in our coach/GM, I don’t think they actually thought the addressed the OL. I think they just hoped it was enough to keep it on a 2020 level to fix later. They failed miserably again and for Marshall and a long snapper we could have at least only need 1 or 2 more OL. If BC improves, 1st round LT and we were done.

Prioritizing it in the coming offseason because they get that the current iteration is a disaster.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We’re not saying the same things. Yes, it’s a disaster but that’s because we did a little patching with bodies and didn’t prioritize it in the 2020 or 2021 draft. While I don’t have faith they will do it right, I’m disagreeing with you that we’ve seen their attempt to fix the OL/make it better. All I think they did was make sure they had five starters and a bit of depth. I’m not going to look at 2021 OL and say their prioritization for 2022 has anything to do with that disaster. I’ll give them a chance but I’m not holding my breath.

Depends on how you define prioritizing. All indications are that the team was prepared to take Penei Sewell over Horn if he'd fallen to them.

And to be clear, I'm not defending Rhule. I just have a different criticism than you.

I still hope next season's OL is under a different coach.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[PantherBoy95]

Richardson might have been a lot of things; some of which I would not defend...

But the only thing he cared about was football. Not Revenue or any of that. 
He only cared about building a respectable franchise.

I couldn't think of how to word it at first...bc I wanted to say he cared about winning, but some of his 'I only sign good boys' ideals kept us average.  But 'Respectable Franchises win', and have a good image.  That's what Jerry wanted no question.

[OldhamA]

12 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That brings up what I'd point out to the "give him one more year" crowd...

Does anyone really think if he gets another year, he'll suddenly change his ways and methods and become competent?

If anything, Rhule has given us a pretty clear indication that when he's challenged, he doubles down.

Putting that together with Gantt's statements that the OL will be priority one this offseason terrifies me.

Another year of Matt Rhule building the offensive line his way could make us exponentially worse.

If I was in charge I'd give him a year with an NFL quality OC and see what happens. 

I'm pretty much on my own here, but I see an inexperienced NFL HC who made a mistake with his OC hire (whether that was pushed on him as the hot name or not I don't know, but ultimately he carries the can for it) and is going to lose his job because of it. 

The defence is very good - not flawless, but very good - and the talent acquisition has been at the level it's needed to get to for years if he want to consistently compete for the Playoffs.

In my eyes Rhule is being punished for the 2 losing seasons and terrible roster Rivera left us with. "4 losing seasons!" is a cry I see often - dude wasn't here for 2 of them. It was always going to take a while to turn this ship around, but to quote a former Panthers HC "it is what it is". 

This fan base has turned toxic and turned on Rhule. He won't survive the offseason. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

28 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

If I was in charge I'd give him a year with an NFL quality OC and see what happens. 

I'm pretty much on my own here, but I see an inexperienced NFL HC who made a mistake with his OC hire (whether that was pushed on him as the hot name or not I don't know, but ultimately he carries the can for it) and is going to lose his job because of it. 

The defence is very good - not flawless, but very good - and the talent acquisition has been at the level it's needed to get to for years if he want to consistently compete for the Playoffs.

In my eyes Rhule is being punished for the 2 losing seasons and terrible roster Rivera left us with. "4 losing seasons!" is a cry I see often - dude wasn't here for 2 of them. It was always going to take a while to turn this ship around, but to quote a former Panthers HC "it is what it is". 

This fan base has turned toxic and turned on Rhule. He won't survive the offseason. 

You know I would be onboard with this IF we showed some sort of improvement from year 1 to year 2.  This may be the 2nd worst team in Panther history.  The ineptness of our offense is the offensive line and instead of finding offensive line help we trade and sign two CB that haven't really helped us.  

I just don't see us improving in 2022.   It almost feels like we have 5 plays on our sheet and that's it.  Teams know all you have to do is blitz the crap out of us and we'll fold.  Our OC(s) have no idea on how to counter them and Rhule is oblivious to how to fix it. 

To me no matter what he does 2022 is another losing season.