After the next few weeks, everyone should understand you need an oline

[onmyown]

Sunce it’s football Sunday, figured I’d spark a little more conversation.

For another debate inspired by the QB thread. Let’s look at oline. Summary - Oline takes you deep in playoffs.

2021 Oline rankings:

Raiders 28 (lost)

Bengals 20

Titans 16

Bills 17

Patriots 9 (lost) 

Steelers 26

Chiefs 5

Cardinals 15

Rams 7

Packers 14

49ers 3

Cowboys 1

Eagles 4

Bucs 2

-8 of the top 10 ranked olines made the playoffs 

- the top 5 olines made the playoffs, all of the top 5 ranked qbs did not

- poor olines sabotaged good qbs that should be in the playoffs (and will continue to do so the further we go)

- only 5 out of 14 teams in the playoffs have a below average oline, and historical statistics heavily favor the last 4 will be in the top 10

-consistent model, historically it should be known going deep in the playoffs consists of smart QB play vs. effective/flashy qb play. Nevertheless, comparing Super Bowl teams in the last two decades have 3 glaring common factors in statistical order: 1. Top defense 2. Top oline 3. QB

-only a few (literally) examples of a team making the super bowl in 20 years with a below average oline, and to a slightly lesser degree, top 10

I should also add we are talking deep playoffs…not simply making the playoffs. I understand making the playoffs has become our super bowl but it’s a low bar.

There are 14 teams left, that’s almost half the NFL. These points will become more apparent further in the playoffs, as it consistently has, just the same, the last 20 years.

This is not downgrading the importance of qb at all, just presenting an argument oline is just as important. You simply cannot ‘get by’ with a mediocre oline, that is false. Unless ‘getting by’ means making the playoffs and no further.

Edited January 16, 2022 by onmyown

[mav1234]

4 minutes ago, onmyown said:

- the top 5 olines made the playoffs, all of the top 5 ranked qbs did not

Er?  By what measure? This isn't true.

In general OL is critical but so is QB.  It's technically easier to build an OL outside the first round, harder to do so for QB.  But I'm not great at evaluating QBs to know if any of these are worthwhile. Unfortunately it looks like our staff is just as bad a I am lol.

[Ornias]

Can the next topic be how we need an entirely new coaching staff?

[GoobyPls]

Most of those teams built the o-line through free agency.

[onmyown]

4 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Er?  By what measure? This isn't true.

In general OL is critical but so is QB.  It's technically easier to build an OL outside the first round, harder to do so for QB.  But I'm not great at evaluating QBs to know if any of these are worthwhile. Unfortunately it looks like our staff is just as bad a I am lol.

Granted Herbert almost made it. And rankings are subjective. But he was ranked top 5…and had an oline ranked 10. It was the defense that did them in. It’s pretty bad.

I wasn’t disputing QB…but there seems to be some sentiment an ‘ok’ oline will suffice and while that may be true to possible make the playoffs, it hasn’t been true for continuing in the playoffs, aside a few anomalous (which had a HOF qb btw) in the past two decades.

[Wes21]

Your post was extra long and at a glance it appeared to be well thought out.  I am sorry for not reading it.  Really, I am.

Our staff said it perfectly.  If you want good offensive lineman, you have to draft them.  If a guy is available in free agency or via trade...there is a reason.  Our staff "gets it," but they haven't executed on what they already know.

[Growl]

3 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Most of those teams built the o-line through free agency.

A couple years ago I looked up how long it had been since a team had taken a OT in the top 10 and had that guy be an anchor on a super bowl run and had to go back forever

the chiefs won one with Eric fisher since then but nobody would confuse him with being important to their success-especially the chiefs.

offensive line is a really practical free agency investment, whereas conversely, a lot of the offensive lines on the list above have been together on bad teams for a while and only became relevant organizations once they found a QB..Dallas, Tampa, etc.

 

[mav1234]

53 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Granted Herbert almost made it. And rankings are subjective. But he was ranked top 5…and had an oline ranked 10. It was the defense that did them in. It’s pretty bad.

I wasn’t disputing QB…but there seems to be some sentiment an ‘ok’ oline will suffice and while that may be true to possible make the playoffs, it hasn’t been true for continuing in the playoffs, aside a few anomalous (which had a HOF qb btw) in the past two decades.

Ah you mean in last year's draft?  I mean, other than Tom Brady, what playoff teams are running with a QB not taken in the first round?  Dallas and Philly?

QBs often take time to make as much of an impact as OL. Not always, but usually.

[mav1234]

55 minutes ago, Growl said:

A couple years ago I looked up how long it had been since a team had taken a OT in the top 10 and had that guy be an anchor on a super bowl run and had to go back forever

the chiefs won one with Eric fisher since then but nobody would confuse him with being important to their success-especially the chiefs.

offensive line is a really practical free agency investment, whereas conversely, a lot of the offensive lines on the list above have been together on bad teams for a while and only became relevant organizations once they found a QB..Dallas, Tampa, etc.

 

Other than a star OT, it seems much easier / more consistent to build the OL thru rounds after the 1st than it is to find a good QB, too. 

I do think we need to invest in the OL this offseason but ideally this is the last time we will be in the top 10 for a while, so if Fitterers guys are sold on one of these QBs I do hope we take them. I just worry what Rhule would do to a rookie QB. Dude is such an awful coach he might ruin whomever it is...

Edited January 16, 2022 by mav1234

[Mike in Raleigh]

2 hours ago, onmyown said:

Sunce it’s football Sunday, figured I’d spark a little more conversation.

For another debate inspired by the QB thread. Let’s look at oline. Summary - Oline takes you deep in playoffs.

2021 Oline rankings:

Raiders 28 (lost)

Bengals 20

Titans 16

Bills 17

Patriots 9 (lost) 

Steelers 26

Chiefs 5

Cardinals 15

Rams 7

Packers 14

49ers 3

Cowboys 1

Eagles 4

Bucs 2

-8 of the top 10 ranked olines made the playoffs 

- the top 5 olines made the playoffs, all of the top 5 ranked qbs did not

- poor olines sabotaged good qbs that should be in the playoffs (and will continue to do so the further we go)

- only 5 out of 14 teams in the playoffs have a below average oline, and historical statistics heavily favor the last 4 will be in the top 10

-consistent model, historically it should be known going deep in the playoffs consists of smart QB play vs. effective/flashy qb play. Nevertheless, comparing Super Bowl teams in the last two decades have 3 glaring common factors in statistical order: 1. Top defense 2. Top oline 3. QB

-only a few (literally) examples of a team making the super bowl in 20 years with a below average oline, and to a slightly lesser degree, top 10

I should also add we are talking deep playoffs…not simply making the playoffs. I understand making the playoffs has become our super bowl but it’s a low bar.

There are 14 teams left, that’s almost half the NFL. These points will become more apparent further in the playoffs, as it consistently has, just the same, the last 20 years.

This is not downgrading the importance of qb at all, just presenting an argument oline is just as important. You simply cannot ‘get by’ with a mediocre oline, that is false. Unless ‘getting by’ means making the playoffs and no further.

I wish I could like this post twice. Having a competent OL makes the whole team better. Granted, the rest of your program needs to be capable as well but a sh1t OL can undo a lot of positives.

[TheRumGone]

Good qbs make olines better but to be fair theres only a handful of qbs in the league right now that could make this line work. They are really fuging bad. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, onmyown said:

Eagles 4

The difference in this game is one team had a QB and the other team didn't. 31-0 in the 3rd quarter. 

 

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, onmyown said:

Sunce it’s football Sunday, figured I’d spark a little more conversation.

For another debate inspired by the QB thread. Let’s look at oline. Summary - Oline takes you deep in playoffs.

2021 Oline rankings:

Raiders 28 (lost)

Bengals 20

Titans 16

Bills 17

Patriots 9 (lost) 

Steelers 26

Chiefs 5

Cardinals 15

Rams 7

Packers 14

49ers 3

Cowboys 1

Eagles 4

Bucs 2

-8 of the top 10 ranked olines made the playoffs 

- the top 5 olines made the playoffs, all of the top 5 ranked qbs did not

- poor olines sabotaged good qbs that should be in the playoffs (and will continue to do so the further we go)

- only 5 out of 14 teams in the playoffs have a below average oline, and historical statistics heavily favor the last 4 will be in the top 10

-consistent model, historically it should be known going deep in the playoffs consists of smart QB play vs. effective/flashy qb play. Nevertheless, comparing Super Bowl teams in the last two decades have 3 glaring common factors in statistical order: 1. Top defense 2. Top oline 3. QB

-only a few (literally) examples of a team making the super bowl in 20 years with a below average oline, and to a slightly lesser degree, top 10

I should also add we are talking deep playoffs…not simply making the playoffs. I understand making the playoffs has become our super bowl but it’s a low bar.

There are 14 teams left, that’s almost half the NFL. These points will become more apparent further in the playoffs, as it consistently has, just the same, the last 20 years.

This is not downgrading the importance of qb at all, just presenting an argument oline is just as important. You simply cannot ‘get by’ with a mediocre oline, that is false. Unless ‘getting by’ means making the playoffs and no further.

So the Patriots with one of the best O-lines got throttled by a team with an average O-line.  Wonder what the difference was?

 

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, onmyown said:

Sunce it’s football Sunday, figured I’d spark a little more conversation.

For another debate inspired by the QB thread. Let’s look at oline. Summary - Oline takes you deep in playoffs.

2021 Oline rankings:

Raiders 28 (lost)

Bengals 20

Titans 16

Bills 17

Patriots 9 (lost) 

Steelers 26

Chiefs 5

Cardinals 15

Rams 7

Packers 14

49ers 3

Cowboys 1

Eagles 4

Bucs 2

-8 of the top 10 ranked olines made the playoffs 

- the top 5 olines made the playoffs, all of the top 5 ranked qbs did not

- poor olines sabotaged good qbs that should be in the playoffs (and will continue to do so the further we go)

- only 5 out of 14 teams in the playoffs have a below average oline, and historical statistics heavily favor the last 4 will be in the top 10

-consistent model, historically it should be known going deep in the playoffs consists of smart QB play vs. effective/flashy qb play. Nevertheless, comparing Super Bowl teams in the last two decades have 3 glaring common factors in statistical order: 1. Top defense 2. Top oline 3. QB

-only a few (literally) examples of a team making the super bowl in 20 years with a below average oline, and to a slightly lesser degree, top 10

I should also add we are talking deep playoffs…not simply making the playoffs. I understand making the playoffs has become our super bowl but it’s a low bar.

There are 14 teams left, that’s almost half the NFL. These points will become more apparent further in the playoffs, as it consistently has, just the same, the last 20 years.

This is not downgrading the importance of qb at all, just presenting an argument oline is just as important. You simply cannot ‘get by’ with a mediocre oline, that is false. Unless ‘getting by’ means making the playoffs and no further.

Eagles have the 4th ranked O-line and didn't beat a single team this year with a winning record.

2021 Philadelphia Eagles Schedule | ESPN

There is only so much an O-line can do, and that is why the QB is infinitely more important.