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Tyler Linderbaum falling?

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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CPantherKing Grand Master

CPantherKing

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Smithers said:

Ryan Kalil was projected to go early in round 1, and ended up falling into the second where we grabbed him.  It always seems like starting centers can be found in round 2-4 without an issue

The all pro 10 year centers always fall as we get closer to draft day. Teams would rather have those shiny toys moving up the draft board like Dwayne Jarrett, Ted Ginn Jr, Jamarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn. Then there are those stud OTs like Levi Brown to anchor your OL. They all climb up the draft boards while the undersized and possibly overrated 1st round center in Ryan Kalil falls because war rooms fall in love with trash projects, hype heroes and combine warriors.

Teams would draft Matt Kalil and Sam Darnold over Ryan Kalil. Shows you how absurd and flawed most of these scouting departments and war rooms are with the old school ways. There's only 70 players in this draft worth a draft pick. 20 1st round picks will be wasted.

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

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No matter the hype, centers are not worthy of top 20 picks, so this was predictable.  Back end of round one is their starting point.  That's when some guys here were saying early in the offseason we should take Linderbaum at #6 or trade back a few picks and take him them, I was saying the value isn't there that early.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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50 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

No matter the hype, centers are not worthy of top 20 picks, so this was predictable.  Back end of round one is their starting point.  That's when some guys here were saying early in the offseason we should take Linderbaum at #6 or trade back a few picks and take him them, I was saying the value isn't there that early.

This. Honestly, the only way an interior OL is worth a top half of the 1st round pick is if he is both a HOF type talent AND the team making the pick is a contender who is in that draft position due to special circumstance (prior trade landing a future 1st or maybe their QB got  injured early derailing their season) and IOL is their big key missing piece. Other than that, I just don't think you can afford to draft IOL high. It's just not high enough impact.

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Khyber53 Grand Master

Khyber53

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I think the kid is good and is going to set someone's line for a decade. If we were trading back, I'd say go for Linderbaum. I'd advocated for him even at 6, but with recent pick-ups he's maybe not as necessary (depending on if our new center is worth keeping).

Still, a good center doesn't, and shouldn't, be the biggest guy on your line. He needs to be the smartest one and have the best technique. 

Linderbaum's main knock, imo, is that he's not big enough to also play guard. He's a center and that's the only place you're going to be able to use him. If you've already got someone in place there, it's a hard sell to pick him up. We now have Bozeman and unless we want to move him to LG game 1, there's too much redundancy to take Linderbaum.

The kid is going to be great, somewhere. If we take him somehow, we're going to be getting a foundational type player. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

No matter the hype, centers are not worthy of top 20 picks, so this was predictable.  Back end of round one is their starting point.  That's when some guys here were saying early in the offseason we should take Linderbaum at #6 or trade back a few picks and take him them, I was saying the value isn't there that early.

Yeah, I like Linderbaum but this talk of taking a C at 6 were nuts. If you miss on that pick, it's basically one of those ones that you never live down. Not to mention your guy is now one of the highest paid centers in the NFL.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I like Linderbaum but this talk of taking a C at 6 were nuts. If you miss on that pick, it's basically one of those ones that you never live down. Not to mention your guy is now one of the highest paid centers in the NFL.

^This 

You have to factor in the contract associated with the #6 pick, it's basically an $8m a year contract.  If you draft a center he better better a top-5 talent or else you are overpaying, because of this he isn't nearly the safe pick that everyone thinks he is.

By contrast if you draft a LT at #6 and if he even turns out average its still a good pick because average LT's are expensive.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

^This 

You have to factor in the contract associated with the #6 pick, it's basically an $8m a year contract.  If you draft a center he better better a top-5 talent or else you are overpaying, because of this he isn't nearly the safe pick that everyone thinks he is.

By contrast if you draft a LT at #6 and if he even turns out average its still a good pick because average LT's are expensive.

Yeah, contracts are rarely looked at by fans when they think positional value. Good example being the classic anti-RB argument. Any RB in the top 10 is typically immediately a top 5-10 paid player at their position. That's a really high bar to hit to be considered a success.

Agreed on how safe the pick is. I like Linderbaum a lot but taking him that high is a huge risk. You just can't afford to miss on top 10 draft picks. It still sucks if you miss on a later first round draft pick but it's not the same as being offered a chance to take one of the top 10 players in any given draft.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

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14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, contracts are rarely looked at by fans when they think positional value. Good example being the classic anti-RB argument. Any RB in the top 10 is typically immediately a top 5-10 paid player at their position. That's a really high bar to hit to be considered a success.

Agreed on how safe the pick is. I like Linderbaum a lot but taking him that high is a huge risk. You just can't afford to miss on top 10 draft picks. It still sucks if you miss on a later first round draft pick but it's not the same as being offered a chance to take one of the top 10 players in any given draft.

Its the devil in the details, you can see how teams spend and there is a positional value out there. 

Funny weird deal is if you are a team drafting late constantly, you want to be weak at RB, C, LB, and S.........AND most times they are. Now you can make your great team even better cause teams in towards the fornt are drafting OL, DL, WRs, and QBs.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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17 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Its the devil in the details, you can see how teams spend and there is a positional value out there. 

Funny weird deal is if you are a team drafting late constantly, you want to be weak at RB, C, LB, and S.........AND most times they are. Now you can make your great team even better cause teams in towards the fornt are drafting OL, DL, WRs, and QBs.

One day I'd like to be one of those teams at the bottom of a first round because of consistent success. It just won't be anytime soon.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

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8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

One day I'd like to be one of those teams at the bottom of a first round because of consistent success. It just won't be anytime soon.

No team has drafted RBs and LBs like the panthers.......two of the least valued spots, even 20 years ago that was the case.....back-asswards.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Basbear said:

No team has drafted RBs and LBs like the panthers.......two of the least valued spots, even 20 years ago that was the case.....back-asswards.

Yeah. I think we go QB here, which is a definite improvement on positional value. The fact that it is likely to be in one of the worst QB drafts in the past few years shows that even when making a better decision, we still manage to fug it up.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah. I think we go QB here, which is a definite improvement on positional value. The fact that it is likely to be in one of the worst QB drafts in the past few years shows that even when making a better decision, we still manage to fug it up.

I think the QB talk is just talk for better trade back packages. A rookie QB is not saving Rhule, especially one form this class. I think the plan not matter what is trade back for picks, no matter the LT left....Herniay fuged this team up trying to force back2back winning seasons, i should say Jerry was at fault more tho cause I know the pressure had to be blackhole levels. 

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