Matt Corral could've went in the first round to the Steelers

[X-Clown]

10 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

32 teams apparently didn't think he was a 1st rounder. I mean....that literally happened.

Then it happened in another whole round.

So anyone claiming they had a first round grade on Corral, Willis, Howell, etc......they clearly didn't.

Do all 32 teams think they needed a QB in the first 2 rounds of this years draft? How many of them did Need a highly drafted QB?

Edited May 5, 2022 by X-Clown

[Ivan The Awesome]

8 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah. So "some teams are dumb" is your counter?

Listen, I know hope is springing eternal(like it always is after the draft) but we need to be realistic about our 3rd round QB. If we are trying to hype him like he is the next Russell Wilson because he is a 3rd round draft pick....that's not likely to end well.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a franchise that could use a good outlier home run, it's ours. But if you start pinning your hopes on outliers.....well.....that doesn't usually end well. 

 

 

No, my 'counter' is that NOT all teams need a QB and given that everyone knows we are a QB needy team and had NO mid round picks, they probably thought they could get a QB in the 3rd round and get higher graded players in other positions, this draft was deep, consensus was always that this was a weak QB class but everything else was deep and rich. LT, DE, WR, etc. You saw where they went, the 3rd round, why waste a 1st round pick on a QB that's going to be there in the 3rd round. Media hyped up the QB's too much and also not every team that needed a QB was a desperate as us. 

 

The NFL is all about situation. taking a flier on Corral for a future 3rd rounder is much better than what they did with Sam. 

 

Look at the situation as well. This pick screams Ben McAdoo, he's gonna install something that Corral will excel at. This is why I feel you're being more pessimistic than realistic because if you were being realistic you'd see that. Corral wouldn't be here if there wasn't a plan in place and they didn't' think he'd be able to run the offense they're going to execute. 

 

Believe me I don't care for Rhule but the moves that have been made in the off season have me a little more hopeful. The odds are against them but they are at least giving themselves a chance to do things the right way and progress for a change. Time will tell though. 

[kungfoodude]

36 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Do all 32 teams think they needed a QB in the first 2 rounds of this years draft? How many of them did Need a highly drafted QB?

So they clearly didn't think these guys were franchise QB's in that case, right? Otherwise you don't let them sit around for three to five rounds.

[kungfoodude]

26 minutes ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

 

 

No, my 'counter' is that NOT all teams need a QB and given that everyone knows we are a QB needy team and had NO mid round picks, they probably thought they could get a QB in the 3rd round and get higher graded players in other positions, this draft was deep, consensus was always that this was a weak QB class but everything else was deep and rich. LT, DE, WR, etc. You saw where they went, the 3rd round, why waste a 1st round pick on a QB that's going to be there in the 3rd round. Media hyped up the QB's too much and also not every team that needed a QB was a desperate as us. 

 

The NFL is all about situation. taking a flier on Corral for a future 3rd rounder is much better than what they did with Sam. 

 

Look at the situation as well. This pick screams Ben McAdoo, he's gonna install something that Corral will excel at. This is why I feel you're being more pessimistic than realistic because if you were being realistic you'd see that. Corral wouldn't be here if there wasn't a plan in place and they didn't' think he'd be able to run the offense they're going to execute. 

 

Believe me I don't care for Rhule but the moves that have been made in the off season have me a little more hopeful. The odds are against them but they are at least giving themselves a chance to do things the right way and progress for a change. Time will tell though. 

Actually this was not regarded as a very deep draft(overall), hence the run on a few positions that had some upper end quality.

Also why I don't believe that many teams, if any, had first round grades on these guys in the 3rd-5th rounds. Mainly because that was what a lot of the scouting/FO quotes basically said. 

I am not bringing that up to throw shade at Corral or really any of these dudes. I am disputing the OP assertion that multiple teams had first round grades on these guys. I am calling BS based on the results we saw.

On paper this offseason appears to be a little better but I am skeptical enough that I need to see the FA's play first before I jump on board. I hope they nailed all of them. Draft included.

 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, and if you are gambling it's the most wise to take a gamble on a health issue or background guy. IMO, anyway. 

He's still a fairly flawed prospect even aside from the other issues.

Yeah the good news is we drafted what should be our franchise LT, which was a HUGE need (pun intended). We also have some intrigue at the QB position and something for McAdoo to work with for a relatively cheap cost. OL and QB battles will actually have some interest this offseason vs watching journeymen OL get demolished and Sam battle PJ…

[Call Me James]

Another year, another offseason of panthers attempting to crown a QB before they ever take a snap. Just let it play out.

[grimesgoat]

6 hours ago, NAS said:

I wonder how much of this is because 1st round  QBs get more opportunities because they are 1st rounders. If Darnold was drafted in the third round, he would be out of the league already.  Third rounders get one chance to shoot their shot and may not get another chance. That’s why Corral shouldn’t be rushed into starting unless he pulls a Russell Wilson, who came out of nowhere because Seattle had no intentions of starting him that year. Let him develop and ensure he knows the system before you find out if he can be the guy.

I think this is a really good point.

If you have a first rounder, he's the de facto starter.  You have so  much invested in him.  He will get the first team reps and the team will be built around his particular skill set.

The 3rd/4th rounder may not get these benefits unless something dramatic happens.

I believe cream eventually rises to the top, but there is no doubt the first round gets the benefit of the doubt and a longer leash based on what has been invested.

Kurt Warner is a great example.  Undrafted.  Played arena league 3-4 years.  Played a year in Europe.  Finally signed by Rams where he was 3rd string for 1998.

Unprotected in the 1999 expansion draft.

Finally got his chance when their starter got hurt in the preseason in 1999 and he never looked back - having a career worthy of a first rounder.

Point is - very little investment = fewer opportunities.

[EgoDogg]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not bringing that up to throw shade at Corral or really any of these dudes. I am disputing the OP assertion that multiple teams had first round grades on these guys. I am calling BS based on the results we saw.

Didn't mean for my post to be taken that way. I'm clearly in the wait and see approach / let him earn it, and I'm not expecting him to be a ROY contender or to perform like an expected first round draft pick. 

When I said "Seems like there are a legitimate amount of actually credible people out there that thought he was worth a first rounder," I'm essentially referencing Ian Rappaport reporting on the Steelers, Chris Simms' comments in the past, and based on what we know of the Panthers thinking (again, based on reports).

There are many teams that chose to pass on him, whether it's because of other needs or they deemed the gamble on taking a QB this draft wasn't worth it (drafting a QB is always a gamble, but this class clearly wasn't deep).

But the fact that The Panthers, the Steelers, and Chris Simms (his track record is strong), and Baldy's clips feels a lot more reassuring than taking a guy like Davis Mills or Will Grier in the 3rd. People/teams that actually know what their talking about, and not just lifelong media guys. It's nothing more than that.

[Sgt Schultz]

Teams in need of a QB may have had Corral graded fairly high compared to other QBs and may have been willing to spring for him in the first round.  But, here comes the IF.  This QB class was weak enough that it depended on what other positions are seeing a run in the first round.  If a team was in dire need of OL help (like us), the fact QBs were not flying off the shelf would funnel them in a different direction.  Why use a first round pick on your #1 or #2 choice in a weak QB draft and wind up with your #7 OT choice in the second?

It was pretty obvious somewhere around picks 10 and 12 that there was not going to be a run on QBs.  I was a little surprised to see only one was taken in the first two rounds, but that created a decent opportunity for us and may have better reflected the general assessment of the QB class than seeing three or four of them drafted in the first round.

The Steelers might have grabbed Corral in the first round IF somebody had taken Pickett earlier, but I don't know that anybody else was going to.  To kungfoodude's point, teams below the Steelers had the chance to take him in the first round and passed.  Teams above them that had second round picks also had the chance and also passed, meaning they probably weren't likely to grab him higher in the first round even had Pickett gone earlier. 

I'm not down on Corral at all, and I think he was a great value in the third round.  I've seen some articles refer to him as a steal in that position.  But I am not going to delude myself or set my expectations on him being first-round talent or readiness.  That is setting him up for failure, even if he turns out to be the best QB in our QB room the day he walks in.

[Growl]

it’s pretty demonstrably clear the panthers would’ve used #38 on him had they still had that pick.

He slid because of the injury and because of issues in his past.

i don’t think he should be regarded as a normal 3rd rounder. My expectations are of that of a 2nd in regards to how I’d handle him.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah the good news is we drafted what should be our franchise LT, which was a HUGE need (pun intended). We also have some intrigue at the QB position and something for McAdoo to work with for a relatively cheap cost. OL and QB battles will actually have some interest this offseason vs watching journeymen OL get demolished and Sam battle PJ…

I am already prepping for Corral to not get a fair evaluation from the coaching staff. I keep thinking of what the dumbest possible thing the coaches could do and that's it. It would be very Panthers.

[Jackie Lee]

2 hours ago, grimesgoat said:

I think this is a really good point.

If you have a first rounder, he's the de facto starter.  You have so  much invested in him.  He will get the first team reps and the team will be built around his particular skill set.

The 3rd/4th rounder may not get these benefits unless something dramatic happens.

I believe cream eventually rises to the top, but there is no doubt the first round gets the benefit of the doubt and a longer leash based on what has been invested.

Kurt Warner is a great example.  Undrafted.  Played arena league 3-4 years.  Played a year in Europe.  Finally signed by Rams where he was 3rd string for 1998.

Unprotected in the 1999 expansion draft.

Finally got his chance when their starter got hurt in the preseason in 1999 and he never looked back - having a career worthy of a first rounder.

Point is - very little investment = fewer opportunities.

Same with Delhomme, took him like 6 years to finally get a starting job

[3838]

8 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

It doesnt matter once they get drafted.  If they can play they can play.  There is a reason they were not drafted in the first

This guy says hello from the "sixth" round.....

[X-Clown]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

So they clearly didn't think these guys were franchise QB's in that case, right? Otherwise you don't let them sit around for three to five rounds.

You do if you believe you already have your franchise QB and want to build around him to maximize the window of opportunity that exists before putting the eggs in the basket of an unknown quantity. Here are the other team's situations, I'll put a star beside teams that realistically were expecting to draft a QB

Buffalo - Has a franchise QB locked in 

New England - Just drafted a QB in the first last year

Miami - Spent a top 5 pick two years ago on a new QB, it's a make or break year for him

New York Jets - Spent a two pick on a QB last year

Cincinnati - Has a franchise QB locked in

Pittsburgh* - Needs a QB and drafted one in the first round

Cleveland - Just gave up a haul to get a franchise QB

Baltimore - Have a franchise QB 

Tennessee* - Tannehill is a question mark enough that Tennessee drafted Willis. You could argue that this may not have been their plan.

Indianapolis - Just traded for Matt Ryan. 

Houston - Just drafted Mills in the 3rd last year, showed enough promise to get a chance to lead during a rebuild

Jacksonville - Just drafted a QB number one last year

Kansas City - Has a franchise QB locked in

Las Vegas - Just extended Carr

LA Chargers - Has a franchise QB locked in

Denver - Just traded for a franchise QB

Dallas - Is paying a good QB like a franchise QB

Philadelphia - Hurts was a 2nd rounder two years ago, like Tua he is in a make or break year

WFT* - Just traded for Carson Wentz, who they will find out shortly is not a franchise QB. Took a flyer on Howell. 

NY Giants* - Giving one more try to top 10 pick Daniel Jones with a new coaching staff. 

Green Bay - Franchise QB that's getting paid 50 million because they pissed him off by trying to find his replacement

Minnesota - Just extended Cousins

Chicago - Just drafted a QB in the first round last year

Detroit* - seem content to use Goff as the bridge QB while they rebuild the rest of the team. Good luck with that.

Tampa - Have the GOAT back again and used a 2nd rounder on a QB last year

New Orleans* - Guess they want to stick with Jameis? Not sure what they'e doing to be honest

Atlanta* - Took Ridder in the 2nd round

LA Rams - Just won a superbowl and extended Stafford

Arizona - Just mended fences with Murray, no way they were going to take a QB high

49ers - Traded 3 first rounders last year to get a QB

Seahawks*- Looks like a complete rebuild after trading Wilson, I guess. 

I count 8 other teams that were possibly looking at drafting a QB high, not 31 of them. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by X-Clown