some tweets from OTAs...qb are throwing

[ForJimmy]

26 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean he was interivewing for OC jobs.  He he wasn't getting them.  And they weren't great teams.  He also inverviewed for QB coach and didn't get those.  With bad teams.  The Jags (a bad team) did finally give him a job as a QB coach. 

I mean, maybe the league has it all wrong.  But failed HCs generally don't have a hard time falling back into coordinator jobs.  McAdoo struggled.  But maybe he doesn't have all the friendships other guys do.   Which could be part of that. 

Honestly I think he is an ok OC, just not head coach.  We could use an average OC because we haven't had a good one in a while.  With that said he nor could any OC in this league magically fix Sam into learning how to read a defense.  

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

To be fair, they would still be an upgrade over Elflein/Miller if that's the case.

Completely agree.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

How many OCs wouldn't look worse going from Teddy to Sam Darnold though?  Regardless if Brady was great, average or bad......whatever he was, he was going to look worse in 2021 simply because of Sam Darnold.   And you can apply that to Matt Rhule too.  But Matt Rhule wanted Sam so it kinda null and voids that on him. 

 

Now you're kind of doing that whole reductive superficial thing with your evaluation, that I'd expect from an outside observer who never actually watched our games.  It's easy to look at our team on paper and say "Ok, they went from a mediocre QB in Teddy, to a bad QB in Sam.  Of course their offense looked worse!!  Any OC would look worse under those circumstances".  But for someone who watches our games as I'm assuming you did, you should be able to apply a bit more nuanced of an evaluation to assess Brady's individual performance within the broader holistic view of our offense.

Watching our games over the last two years, did you ever feel like you were watching Brady make in-game adjustments in real time?  I sure as hell didn't.  It looked like he went into the game with a rigid gameplan and he stuck with it throughout the course of the game.  Why did we consistently suck absolute a%@hole in the 3rd quarter last year?  Is Sam just inherently a worse QB in the 3rd quarter?  Or were defensive coaches making adjustments after halftime and throwing things at us that we were entirely unprepared for and unable to adjust to in turn?  How many 3rd quarter meltdowns should it take for us to learn to come out of halftime with some new tricks up our sleeve?  Football in large part is a chess match between offensive and defensive coordinators and Brady routinely made opposing DCs look like Grandmasters out there. Oh, we have one of the worst o-lines in NFL history?  Let's not run the ball, and instead do more 5 and 7 step drops in the pass game.  Even during the 2020 season, we consistently sucked in the red zone all year long and it was never apparent that we tried anything different.

It's easier than you make it out to be, to isolate an OC's performance within the offense.  The lack of adjustments routinely killed us over the last couple years, and that is on the OC.  I don't know if McAdoo will be an improvement in that area, but I sure as hell can't imagine he could be worse.

[falconlynx]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Now you're kind of doing that whole reductive superficial thing with your evaluation, that I'd expect from an outside observer who never actually watched our games.  It's easy to look at our team on paper and say "Ok, they went from a mediocre QB in Teddy, to a bad QB in Sam.  Of course their offense looked worse!!  Any OC would look worse under those circumstances".  But for someone who watches our games as I'm assuming you did, you should be able to apply a bit more nuanced of an evaluation to assess Brady's individual performance within the broader holistic view of our offense.

Watching our games over the last two years, did you ever feel like you were watching Brady make in-game adjustments in real time?  I sure as hell didn't.  It looked like he went into the game with a rigid gameplan and he stuck with it throughout the course of the game.  Why did we consistently suck absolute a%@hole in the 3rd quarter last year?  Is Sam just inherently a worse QB in the 3rd quarter?  Or were defensive coaches making adjustments after halftime and throwing things at us that we were entirely unprepared for and unable to adjust to in turn?  How many 3rd quarter meltdowns should it take for us to learn to come out of halftime with some new tricks up our sleeve?  Football in large part is a chess match between offensive and defensive coordinators and Brady routinely made opposing DCs look like Grandmasters out there. Oh, we have one of the worst o-lines in NFL history?  Let's not run the ball, and instead do more 5 and 7 step drops in the pass game.  Even during the 2020 season, we consistently sucked in the red zone all year long and it was never apparent that we tried anything different.

It's easier than you make it out to be, to isolate an OC's performance within the offense.  The lack of adjustments routinely killed us over the last couple years, and that is on the OC.  I don't know if McAdoo will be an improvement in that area, but I sure as hell can't imagine he could be worse.

This is the best thing I’ve read here recently.
 

Mainly because it’s right on and I agree 100%. 

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Now you're kind of doing that whole reductive superficial thing with your evaluation, that I'd expect from an outside observer who never actually watched our games.  It's easy to look at our team on paper and say "Ok, they went from a mediocre QB in Teddy, to a bad QB in Sam.  Of course their offense looked worse!!  Any OC would look worse under those circumstances".  But for someone who watches our games as I'm assuming you did, you should be able to apply a bit more nuanced of an evaluation to assess Brady's individual performance within the broader holistic view of our offense.

Watching our games over the last two years, did you ever feel like you were watching Brady make in-game adjustments in real time?  I sure as hell didn't.  It looked like he went into the game with a rigid gameplan and he stuck with it throughout the course of the game.  Why did we consistently suck absolute a%@hole in the 3rd quarter last year?  Is Sam just inherently a worse QB in the 3rd quarter?  Or were defensive coaches making adjustments after halftime and throwing things at us that we were entirely unprepared for and unable to adjust to in turn?  How many 3rd quarter meltdowns should it take for us to learn to come out of halftime with some new tricks up our sleeve?  Football in large part is a chess match between offensive and defensive coordinators and Brady routinely made opposing DCs look like Grandmasters out there. Oh, we have one of the worst o-lines in NFL history?  Let's not run the ball, and instead do more 5 and 7 step drops in the pass game.  Even during the 2020 season, we consistently sucked in the red zone all year long and it was never apparent that we tried anything different.

It's easier than you make it out to be, to isolate an OC's performance within the offense.  The lack of adjustments routinely killed us over the last couple years, and that is on the OC.  I don't know if McAdoo will be an improvement in that area, but I sure as hell can't imagine he could be worse.

The in game adjustments didn't happen in 2020 either.  No one is saying our offense was great or even good it 2020 because it wasn't.  It was boring/predictable and pretty bad.  It got much worse with Sam because of his constant turnovers.  Teddy wasn't that great for us which is why we moved on from him so quickly.  He wouldn't test the defense and was pretty terrible in the redzone (which was also on the staff as they never practiced redone offense apparently).  So Joe Brady's offense was bad with Teddy, but much worse with Darnold and then once Brady was fired the new OC still struggled with Darnold as did every coach that was around him.  

Let's take a look at Adam Gase with Darnold. 

As the OC for the Broncos Gase helped Manning have a record-breaking passing season and then win a Super Bowl the following year.  Obviously Manning made this job easy and their offense was pretty bad during their Super Bowl run, so their are still many questions. .

He then became the OC for the Chicago Bears in which the team finished 18th in total offense which is below average but not terrible.  

Then he went to Miami as the head coach and went 23-25 which we can call "below average slightly."  

He goes to NYJ and gets Darnold in 2019 right after his rookie year.  Finishes his tenure 9-23 with a terrible offense led by.... Sam Darnold.  One could argue Gase was an average coach that got stuck with Sam Darnold and ruined his career.  

[MasterAwesome]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

The in game adjustments didn't happen in 2020 either.  No one is saying our offense was great or even good it 2020 because it wasn't.  It was boring/predictable and pretty bad.  It got much worse with Sam because of his constant turnovers.  Teddy wasn't that great for us which is why we moved on from him so quickly.  He wouldn't test the defense and was pretty terrible in the redzone (which was also on the staff as they never practiced redone offense apparently).  So Joe Brady's offense was bad with Teddy, but much worse with Darnold and then once Brady was fired the new OC still struggled with Darnold as did every coach that was around him.  

Let's take a look at Adam Gase with Darnold. 

As the OC for the Broncos Gase helped Manning have a record-breaking passing season and then win a Super Bowl the following year.  Obviously Manning made this job easy and their offense was pretty bad during their Super Bowl run, so their are still many questions. .

He then became the OC for the Chicago Bears in which the team finished 18th in total offense which is below average but not terrible.  

Then he went to Miami as the head coach and went 23-25 which we can call "below average slightly."  

He goes to NYJ and gets Darnold in 2019 right after his rookie year.  Finishes his tenure 9-23 with a terrible offense led by.... Sam Darnold.  One could argue Gase was an average coach that got stuck with Sam Darnold and ruined his career.  

Yeah but you're doing the whole black-and-white holistic statistical look at the offense which is literally the exact thing I said I am not doing.  I'm talking about a nuanced evaluation where you look in depth at why the offense struggled, not just simply that the offense struggled.  I'm saying we clearly had a problem with in-game adjustments, which you appear to agree with, which objectively falls on the shoulders of the OC.  So simply hand-waving Brady's failures as "oh he had Sam Darnold" is a very surface-level and elementary analysis.  We can do a little better than that, as Panthers' fans who watched every game.

I think too much is made of the new bum Rhule-lackey who filled in at OC for the last 5 games of the season.  People seem to use his failure as vindication of Joe Brady like "See! We still sucked on offense after Brady left, Brady clearly wasn't the problem".  We thrust this absolute nobody (Rhule's co-offensive coordinator at Baylor lol) into a prominent role as OC for the last 5 games of the season, while still using Brady's playbook.  Properly and extensively coordinating an offense is something that begins in the offseason with playbook development, while using OTAs and minicamp to instill and tweak the offensive scheme.  To think some rando lackey could have an actual shot at success going from running backs coach to OC using some other dude's playbook and offensive scheme is laughable.  Now that McAdoo has come in and has had a proper offseason to build a playbook and develop/install his offensive scheme...if Sam Darnold starts the year and plays a considerable number of games as our starting QB and our offense crashes and burns similarly to last year, THEN we can maybe begin to consider that as somewhat of a vindication of Joe Brady.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 hours ago, falconlynx said:

Is this an issue with Darnold, or an issue with the OC?

 

I really don’t care if Darnold succeeds, but if you’re trying to be objective, he’s never had a good OC situation and it’s not like any other QBs on the teams he’s been on have excelled.
 

Unfortunately for the NFL QB, so much of whether you make it or not is getting in the right system with the right coaches on the right team.
 

Look at Matt Stafford for a recent example. He was just so-so to me until he got on the Rams and he went to the next level. 

 

It may be Sam Darnold has just been very unlucky so far in the support resources around him. Will be very interesting to see what happens this coming season. 

It's Darnold. Hence why we're still sniffing around Baker Mayfield after drafting a QB in the 3rd. Darnold ain't it.

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

Yeah but you're doing the whole black-and-white holistic statistical look at the offense which is literally the exact thing I said I am not doing.  I'm talking about a nuanced evaluation where you look in depth at why the offense struggled, not just simply that the offense struggled.  I'm saying we clearly had a problem with in-game adjustments, which you appear to agree with, which objectively falls on the shoulders of the OC.  So simply hand-waving Brady's failures as "oh he had Sam Darnold" is a very surface-level and elementary analysis.  We can do a little better than that, as Panthers' fans who watched every game.

I think too much is made of the new bum Rhule-lackey who filled in at OC for the last 5 games of the season.  People seem to use his failure as vindication of Joe Brady like "See! We still sucked on offense after Brady left, Brady clearly wasn't the problem".  We thrust this absolute nobody (Rhule's co-offensive coordinator at Baylor lol) into a prominent role as OC for the last 5 games of the season, while still using Brady's playbook.  Properly and extensively coordinating an offense is something that begins in the offseason with playbook development, while using OTAs and minicamp to instill and tweak the offensive scheme.  To think some rando lackey could have an actual shot at success going from running backs coach to OC using some other dude's playbook and offensive scheme is laughable.  Now that McAdoo has come in and has had a proper offseason to build a playbook and develop/install his offensive scheme...if Sam Darnold starts the year and plays a considerable number of games as our starting QB and our offense crashes and burns similarly to last year, THEN we can maybe begin to consider that as somewhat of a vindication of Joe Brady.

Joe Brady was clearly not a good OC, I agree there.  My point is wherever Darnold goes to play the offense crumbles.  He simply can't read defenses.  His numbers were actually worse when he had more time in the pocket.  He isn't going to go from dead last in the league to a good QB because we brought in McAdoo who might be an average OC (not unlike Gase before the Jets).  Our staff was and is still very eager to move on from him for a reason.

[MasterAwesome]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

Joe Brady was clearly not a good OC, I agree there.  My point is wherever Darnold goes to play the offense crumbles.  He simply can't read defenses.  His numbers were actually worse when he had more time in the pocket.  He isn't going to go from dead last in the league to a good QB because we brought in McAdoo who might be an average OC (not unlike Gase before the Jets).  Our staff was and is still very eager to move on from him for a reason.

Agreed.  I was simply pushing back on the suggestion that "hey maybe Brady was actually a good OC who was set up to fail and scapegoated because he was stuck with Sam Darnold".  Like I said, I think it's silly to hand-wave away Brady's failures simply because he had a terrible starting QB...but similarly, I'm not in any way absolving Sam Darnold's failures by saying he was a victim of a terrible OC.  Brady and Darnold were both garbage and it's no mystery how Brady + Darnold + a terrible starting o-line = a joke of an offense.

[Michael G]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Football in large part is a chess match between offensive and defensive coordinators and Brady routinely made opposing DCs look like Grandmasters out there. Oh, we have one of the worst o-lines in NFL history?  Let's not run the ball, and instead do more 5 and 7 step drops in the pass game.  Even during the 2020 season, we consistently sucked in the red zone all year long and it was never apparent that we tried anything different.

This is 100% on the money IMO. I can't tell you how many times I prayed for adjustments like moving the pocket, or taking shots deep just to back off the Safeties and Corners (Just let RA and DJ run). Can you imagine how open our receivers would be after a double move the way CB's sat on routes......

[Basbear]

8 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

Maybe you've stayed constant and the team has changed...

You figured it out, good fortune to you wise one!

[JawnyBlaze]

21 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

#FakeNews

Rhule never said anything of the sort...

if you kept reading what I said, I said that I know that’s not what he said and addressed what he actually meant. 

[SizzleBuzz]

36 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

if you kept reading what I said, I said that I know that’s not what he said and addressed what he actually meant.