Sounds like we made the right call...

[Snake]

That wasn't a tough call tbh. 

[Sgt Schultz]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, if you had established value for a player, they would literally already have been traded. 

PJ has absolutely zero NFL value. He is a dime a dozen amongst 3rd QB's. Darnold has some limited value as a low tier 2nd QB but at his contract value his tradeability is extremely minimal. 

This idea that we are doing this for trade value is fuging ridiculous. If that is actually the case, there shouldn't be a single fan that isn't incensed. 

Exactly.  Why would a team part with anything for Darnold right now, unless we eat almost all his contract?  They can wait until we either let him go or his contract ends.  It's not like there is going to be a bidding war for his services, or even that they are likely to get 6 games into the season and kick themselves for not having Darnold.  There are going to be a lot of Darnolds, some better, available in the coming weeks.

Some people also act like the 4 years of film on him are locked up somewhere and not accessible to the other 31 teams (30 if you exclude the Jets), or that they think "wow, he looks good in Carolina this TC, that Rhule is a genius has us thinking Darnold has turned a corner."

It is what I call HGTV thinking.  Want to sell your house?  Spend $15k sprucing it up and replacing things that are outdated, so you can make an extra $10k on the sales price......before the commission, of course.

[mrcompletely11]

32 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The whole idea of playing and giving guys more reps so we can create trade value for them leaves out an important part of the equation:  is it worth the reps and time?

Let's say some team decides Darnold is worth trading for, and we get a 7th that could become a 6th, and we eat $16M of his contract?  Is that pick and $2.5M worth giving Mayfield and Corral fewer reps as we try to get one as much time with his offense as possible before the season and try to develop the other?  If you plan to unload Darnold, we are also taking reps from PJ.

This is an opportunity cost question.  You don't just look at what you put in vs. what you got back, you factor in what else you could have done with the resources.  Those things have value, too. 

I couldn’t have said it better.   Awesome post

[mrcompletely11]

32 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

So with your logic were Brandon Smith and barno playing solid entirely because of coaching?  I mean they were even later picks than Corral so that must be some great coaching.

You don’t think coaching factored it to it?  Plus they both have been getting a ton of reps in camp.  Big difference

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Exactly.  Why would a team part with anything for Darnold right now, unless we eat almost all his contract?  They can wait until we either let him go or his contract ends.  It's not like there is going to be a bidding war for his services, or even that they are likely to get 6 games into the season and kick themselves for not having Darnold.  There are going to be a lot of Darnolds, some better, available in the coming weeks.

Some people also act like the 4 years of film on him are locked up somewhere and not accessible to the other 31 teams (30 if you exclude the Jets), or that they think "wow, he looks good in Carolina this TC, that Rhule is a genius has us thinking Darnold has turned a corner."

It is what I call HGTV thinking.  Want to sell your house?  Spend $15k sprucing it up and replacing things that are outdated, so you can make an extra $10k on the sales price......before the commission, of course.

Yeah, it's a lot of fans high on copium for the ignorant BS we are seeing. 

There are two QB's on our roster that MIGHT have a future with us past next season. They are Baker Mayfield and Matt Corral.

We KNOW Darnold is gone. Any thought of resigning him is pure insanity. PJ Walker is always on a year to year contract based on what we have available as an upgrade as #3 QB. 

Given this situation, there is simply zero reason to not have increased Mayfield and/or Corral's reps. At the point where PJ Walker is trotting in a regular season game, things are already off the rails enough that we know our coach is finished.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by kungfoodude

[t96]

 

42 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The goal of TC and preseason isn't to showcase bottom end players for trade bait, it's to get your own team prepared.

If Darnold or PJ's reps are being tied to making them more attractive trade options and not purely evaluation for us, then we need to fire Rhule ASAP. 

That's about as derelict in one's duties as you can get for a coach on the hot seat.

Also, they need to figure out who is sticking around because giving reps to a QB that is going to get cut or put on the practice squad(this goes for Darnold, PJ or Corral) is a complete and utter waste of time. 

These shouldn't be fantastically difficult decisions to make for someone who supposedly is an NFL coach.

The reps are to evaluate what to do with the QBs, going in predetermined to slot guys in as starter, backup, 3rd string, cut/PS, etc. is ridiculous. None of the reps have anything to do with making players more attractive trade options. Darnold is pushing Baker, Baker has clearly won (or will within the next week or so).

 

Then from there the question is how can we get rid of Darnold and clear some cap space if possible? Ideally we retain about 75% of his contract and trade him for a conditional 7th or something. We free up $4-5m and don't give anything up, the acquiring team gets a decent QB option for a cheap 1 year deal and no risk (Rams make a lot of sense, McVay can coddle him like he did Goff, if Stafford were to miss time with his elbow issue).

 

If we can't get rid of Sam or decide (based on the reps and what each QB does with them) that it's better to just keep him as backup at his absurd cap hit because PJ/Corral are so far behind, then so be it. If we can offload him and free up cap space then the question is who is the backup between those 2? PJ is clearly ahead of Corral, and if we are going to be able to get rid of Sam to free up space, PJ should be getting reps.

 

A lot of moving parts and all 4 guys getting reps makes sense to factor into decision making. This type of thing is common throughout the league across all the positions. Corral is a 3rd round rookie QB, the Huddle needs to give him time. His reps will increase.

[Carl Spackler]

3 hours ago, weyco2000 said:

The only two rookies I’ve seen play was last Saturday. Howell made plays based on instincts, not being coached up… jeez man get a grip.

"Instincts" is an interesting way to pronounce "all day to throw the ball"

[YourLastThought]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm kind of struck by a contrast here...

The 49ers, planning to part ways with Jimmy Garoppolo, tell him not to bother showing up for training camp.

The Panthers, expecting to part ways with PJ Walker, give him the majority of snaps in their first preseason game.

That's called dip-poo leadership. The 49ers are not led by a narcissistic bumbling buffoon who uses a magic eight ball he shakes around to decide what idiotic move to make next with personnel, coaching or even practice reps.

[Sgt Schultz]

5 minutes ago, YourLastThought said:

That's called dip-poo leadership. The 49ers are not led by a narcissistic bumbling buffoon who uses a magic eight ball he shakes around to decide what idiotic move to make next with personnel, coaching or even practice reps.

But tell me, what do you really think of Matt Rhule?

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

 

The reps are to evaluate what to do with the QBs, going in predetermined to slot guys in as starter, backup, 3rd string, cut/PS, etc. is ridiculous. None of the reps have anything to do with making players more attractive trade options. Darnold is pushing Baker, Baker has clearly won (or will within the next week or so).

 

Then from there the question is how can we get rid of Darnold and clear some cap space if possible? Ideally we retain about 75% of his contract and trade him for a conditional 7th or something. We free up $4-5m and don't give anything up, the acquiring team gets a decent QB option for a cheap 1 year deal and no risk (Rams make a lot of sense, McVay can coddle him like he did Goff, if Stafford were to miss time with his elbow issue).

 

If we can't get rid of Sam or decide (based on the reps and what each QB does with them) that it's better to just keep him as backup at his absurd cap hit because PJ/Corral are so far behind, then so be it. If we can offload him and free up cap space then the question is who is the backup between those 2? PJ is clearly ahead of Corral, and if we are going to be able to get rid of Sam to free up space, PJ should be getting reps.

 

A lot of moving parts and all 4 guys getting reps makes sense to factor into decision making. This type of thing is common throughout the league across all the positions. Corral is a 3rd round rookie QB, the Huddle needs to give him time. His reps will increase.

I disagree on determining slots for the players. Any league person could say with confidence that Mayfield was going to "win" this job. So at that point the remaining battle is 2nd through 4th. That is basically it.

The whole thing was fuging annoying and it's completely counterproductive for the team as a whole. It's not any different than the stupid BS with the OL. 

There are quite literally limited reps to get these new players to gel. Wasting them on stupid "competitions" that aren't real is fuging absurd.

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, YourLastThought said:

That's called dip-poo leadership. The 49ers are not led by a narcissistic bumbling buffoon who uses a magic eight ball he shakes around to decide what idiotic move to make next with personnel, coaching or even practice reps.

You really need to stop holding back and let us know how you really feel about Rhule. 

[Sgt Schultz]

49 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I disagree on determining slots for the players. Any league person could say with confidence that Mayfield was going to "win" this job. So at that point the remaining battle is 2nd through 4th. That is basically it.

The whole thing was fuging annoying and it's completely counterproductive for the team as a whole. It's not any different than the stupid BS with the OL. 

There are quite literally limited reps to get these new players to gel. Wasting them on stupid "competitions" that aren't real is fuging absurd.

Other than Seattle and their (effed up) QB situation, every single coach could field a starting lineup the minute the teams enter camp.  That doesn't mean it is the same depth chart that will exist in September, or November. 

What happens in TC and preseason can change that.  Presumed starters get hurt, fail to recover from injuries, age and lose a step, regress, or just plain suck all of a sudden. 

Presumed backups get better or suddenly elevate their stock.  They can and do show that in the second team reps.  When the overtake happens, these guys get first team reps.

THAT is the competition. The reason is they are trying to prepare the first team for the season.  This is not college, they are not playing Northeastern Southwest Rhode Island State A&M Tech in the opening game.

I get Seattle's situation.  They are openly at the onset of a major rebuild.  Whoever is their starting QB this year gets the job temporarily. They are not expecting Smith or Lock to be the starter a year from now. 

So we are doing the same thing as a team that is tearing the place down to the studs and rebuilding.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, Sgt Schultz said:

Other than Seattle and their (effed up) QB situation, every single coach could field a starting lineup the minute the teams enter camp.  That doesn't mean it is the same depth chart that will exist in September, or November. 

What happens in TC and preseason can change that.  Presumed starters get hurt, fail to recover from injuries, age and lose a step, regress, or just plain suck all of a sudden. 

Presumed backups get better or suddenly elevate their stock.  They can and do show that in the second team reps.  When the overtake happens, these guys get first team reps.

THAT is the competition. The reason is they are trying to prepare the first team for the season.  This is not college, they are not playing Northeastern Southwest Rhode Island State A&M Tech in the opening game.

I get Seattle's situation.  They are openly at the onset of a major rebuild.  Whoever is their starting QB this year gets the job temporarily. They are not expecting Smith or Lock to be the starter a year from now. 

So we are doing the same thing as a team that is tearing the place down to the studs and rebuilding.

Not only that but both qbs played the entire game

[kungfoodude]

25 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Other than Seattle and their (effed up) QB situation, every single coach could field a starting lineup the minute the teams enter camp.  That doesn't mean it is the same depth chart that will exist in September, or November. 

What happens in TC and preseason can change that.  Presumed starters get hurt, fail to recover from injuries, age and lose a step, regress, or just plain suck all of a sudden. 

Presumed backups get better or suddenly elevate their stock.  They can and do show that in the second team reps.  When the overtake happens, these guys get first team reps.

THAT is the competition. The reason is they are trying to prepare the first team for the season.  This is not college, they are not playing Northeastern Southwest Rhode Island State A&M Tech in the opening game.

I get Seattle's situation.  They are openly at the onset of a major rebuild.  Whoever is their starting QB this year gets the job temporarily. They are not expecting Smith or Lock to be the starter a year from now. 

So we are doing the same thing as a team that is tearing the place down to the studs and rebuilding.

We seem to have some sort of fetish for being different than everyone. Listen, the NFL is a copycat league and being innovative can give you a big edge.

This poo isn't innovative, however. We tried that poo with Joe Brady and it failed. I don't see anything these fuging guys are doing that seems "innovative." They just need to be different than anyone else in the NFL for some reason and the results are in. fuging STOP.