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Now that Rhule has been let go: Time to Suck Proud for Stroud

Varking

By Varking,
in Carolina Panthers

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roaddog96 Collaborator

roaddog96

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

you could apply that to a ton of schools

 

scouting the helmet is fuging stupid

It’s not about scouting the helmet. That school has never put a QB in the league that was actually true starter material (Fields is not a starter, the Bears would’ve already benched him if they didn’t fear the backlash). It would be irresponsible to not pay attention to the history with that school and it’s QB products in the NFL. Dwayne Haskins had every bit of arm talent and tools that Stroud is currently displaying, threw 50 TD’s one season, and never panned out once he had to go into a pro scheme(RIP). Neither did JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, etc. They run a wide open system that looks great for numbers because all the top WR’s go there to play so its big windows and speed everywhere. They out talent everyone in the BIG 10 at the skill positions and that’s why the QB’s look good. Not saying it isn’t possible that he can be good, but I would trade down a few spots with someone that wants him, and get Levis/Young and additional picks. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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2 minutes ago, roaddog96 said:

It’s not about scouting the helmet. That school has never put a QB in the league that was actually true starter material (Fields is not a starter, the Bears would’ve already benched him if they didn’t fear the backlash). It would be irresponsible to not pay attention to the history with that school and it’s QB products in the NFL. Dwayne Haskins had every bit of arm talent and tools that Stroud is currently displaying, threw 50 TD’s one season, and never panned out once he had to go into a pro scheme(RIP). Neither did JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, etc. They run a wide open system that looks great for numbers because all the top WR’s go there to play so its big windows and speed everywhere. They out talent everyone in the BIG 10 at the skill positions and that’s why the QB’s look good. Not saying it isn’t possible that he can be good, but I would trade down a few spots with someone that wants him, and get Levis/Young and additional picks. 

now do LSU

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SCO96 Mentor

SCO96

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, roaddog96 said:

It’s not about scouting the helmet. That school has never put a QB in the league that was actually true starter material (Fields is not a starter, the Bears would’ve already benched him if they didn’t fear the backlash). It would be irresponsible to not pay attention to the history with that school and it’s QB products in the NFL. Dwayne Haskins had every bit of arm talent and tools that Stroud is currently displaying, threw 50 TD’s one season, and never panned out once he had to go into a pro scheme(RIP). Neither did JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, etc. They run a wide open system that looks great for numbers because all the top WR’s go there to play so its big windows and speed everywhere. They out talent everyone in the BIG 10 at the skill positions and that’s why the QB’s look good. Not saying it isn’t possible that he can be good, but I would trade down a few spots with someone that wants him, and get Levis/Young and additional picks. 

This is what people need to remember. The big time schools get a lot of 4-5 star talent and are usually just better at the skill positions and trenches than their opponents. These QB's get to the pros and quickly realize every player in the NFL is better than what they faced in college. Then, the high draft choices go to bad teams (which is why they were drafted high in the first place) which results in them looking mediocre. Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes , Dan Marino all  went to teams that made the playoffs or at least had a winning record the season before they took over as starter. A solid roster was there to help them and they all blossomed in a hurry. The guys who go to bad teams struggle,  especially in their first few season. Some never can recover. Teams and fans put too much pressure and high expectations for 22-24 year old kids entering the league.

Stroud could be good as you pointed out, but he ain't worth "tanking for". No one in this draft is.

Edited by SCO96
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roaddog96 Collaborator

roaddog96

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14 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

now do LSU

LSU historically has not been a QB factory, favoring a more ground and pound approach on the field. Known more for the RB’s that they have put into the league, they do have notable QB’s like HOF Y.A. Tittle, Bert Jones, lesser known NFL backup QB’s like Matt Flynn, Zach Mettenburger, Danny Etling and a few others who were in the league for a cup of coffee. Recently, they had success with Joe Burrow, who went there from Ohio State, and had 3 NFL WR’s (Jefferson, Chase, TMJ) running the Saints playbook that Joe Brady brought from NO and Steve Esminger calling the plays. Struggled since Burrow left, not able to play at the same level, currently under Brian Kelly, who is not known as a QB guru or developer. 

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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7 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Unless a drastic improvement in his play occurs, it appears we'll be adding 2021 draft pick Justin Fields to this mediocre list of quarterbacks.

Fields will be fine. But those guys, even Justin Fields, are not CJ Stroud. Joe Burrow went to OSU for 3 years. Then he went to LSU for 2 where both schools have produced trash QBs... yet he is fine.

Oregon has produced many trash QBs yet Herbert is fine....

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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On 10/12/2022 at 10:59 AM, SCO96 said:

 

It matters b/c Ohio State QB;s never pan out in the NFL. I'm 51 years old and can clearly remember EVERY NFL SEASON since 1979. That's over 40 years worth of games. I've seen a lot of players come and go. In that time span OHIO STATE has never produced a successful NFL QB.

If Stroud fell to us in the draft and a great OC or HC was leading the offense I "might" could support taking him. No way would I lose games intentionally to draft him. It seems like whenever a team needs a QB, everyone feels they need to grab a QB in the top 10 if they have the pick. Unfortunately, the colleges simply don't put out "franshise" QB's every year. Take look at the link below to see just how many 1st rounder have flamed out in the pro after they were taken in the 1st round.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Don't read the entire chart (unless you have a bunch of time). Just start at 2010. Most of the first rounders don't pan out. If a QB is good we should take them, but we can't afford to reach at that position.

PS: That chart goes back to 1937. I bet you won't find one Ohio State player who excelled in the NFL as a quarterback.

Good point. Definitely draft based on school. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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On 10/12/2022 at 10:59 AM, SCO96 said:

 

It matters b/c Ohio State QB;s never pan out in the NFL. I'm 51 years old and can clearly remember EVERY NFL SEASON since 1979. That's over 40 years worth of games. I've seen a lot of players come and go. In that time span OHIO STATE has never produced a successful NFL QB.

If Stroud fell to us in the draft and a great OC or HC was leading the offense I "might" could support taking him. No way would I lose games intentionally to draft him. It seems like whenever a team needs a QB, everyone feels they need to grab a QB in the top 10 if they have the pick. Unfortunately, the colleges simply don't put out "franshise" QB's every year. Take look at the link below to see just how many 1st rounder have flamed out in the pro after they were taken in the 1st round.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Don't read the entire chart (unless you have a bunch of time). Just start at 2010. Most of the first rounders don't pan out. If a QB is good we should take them, but we can't afford to reach at that position.

PS: That chart goes back to 1937. I bet you won't find one Ohio State player who excelled in the NFL as a quarterback.

yikes

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Ricky Spanish Grand Master

Ricky Spanish

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I'm conflicted.

On one hand, I understand the desire to look back on older threads to see a snapshot of where we were as a fanbase and what we all wanted at the time.

But at the same time, the reason people keep doing it is to perpetuate their own misery and it does nothing to change who we ended up hiring, drafting, or how the team ended up doing this season. Feels like people are doing it just to bitch and moan and stomp their feet for not getting their way.

I'm not locking this, but at this point you guys should just be Texans fans.

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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2 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

I'm conflicted.

On one hand, I understand the desire to look back on older threads to see a snapshot of where we were as a fanbase and what we all wanted at the time.

But at the same time, the reason people keep doing it is to perpetuate their own misery and it does nothing to change who we ended up hiring, drafting, or how the team ended up doing this season. Feels like people are doing it just to bitch and moan and stomp their feet for not getting their way.

I'm not locking this, but at this point you guys should just be Texans fans.

For this playoff run I am

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CamWhoaaCam Grand Master

CamWhoaaCam

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Not sure what Tepper was thinking passing on Stroud.

 

Like how do you walk into a room shake hands with a kid who looks to be your regular sized high schooler and think he has what it takes to lead your franchise.

 

Was Stroud too perfect looks, size, arm talent. That maybe scared Tepper off. He knew Nicole would fall in love and divorce him for Stroud.

 

 

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

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All big schools should really have the QB position scrutinized because of the talent around him.  However, due to the transfer portal and NIL the "----school sucks producing QBs" notion is going be be irrelevant soon, very soon.  Why?  Few will be there from Freshman to Senior year and will not be a pure product of "x" school.  It's basically free agency at the college level now.  Any QB that has makings/aspirations of a NFL QB will jump top a bigger, more pro-ready system/program.  It's already happening and we are just at the threshold of this new frontier.

The biggest take away going forward is not where the guy ends up for his last season or two, but how he looked before transferring.  In year's past, especially going back several year's prior, guys rarely transferred (compared to the rate now.)  People really didn't dig into the 'old' tape as is was largely inconsequential.

Now, as guys hop from program to program, seeing how they performed in the past before landing on these 'all-star' rosters is going to (or at lest SHOULD) be a major measuring stick.

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