Would you trade 9 for Fields - straight up?

[Varking]

25 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Here's a hypothetical for you. What if the Panthers use the 9th pick on Hooker? Would that be considered taking a shot on a 1st round pick qb?

Throw out your recency bias from this past season. 

To me Hooker in the first is a reach. 

[Jon Snow]

19 minutes ago, Varking said:

To me Hooker in the first is a reach. 

Tell that to Bucky Brooks. He has Hooker rated ahead of Levis and AR.  It's a long way to draft night. Anything can happen. 

[Hogan]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:26 AM, BrianS said:

No.  His development as a passer has been non-existent thus far.  INT rate is far too high and completion percentage too low.  Once teams start treating him like Vick, he'll be just another backup.

Agree. Cam, Lamar Jackson, Fields, etc. Great players. But due to their running, short shelf life. Rather have someone who is an elite passer who can run if he has to.

[Jackie Lee]

This is probably true. I wasn't sold on him until the GA game. 

 

[Varking]

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Tell that to Bucky Brooks. He has Hooker rated ahead of Levis and AR.  It's a long way to draft night. Anything can happen. 

I don’t knock analysts for having a different take than me. I wasn’t fond of what I saw from Hooker in college. He had big stats but he was more of a one-read QB than any of the other guys I watched this year. 

[ForJimmy]

22 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

This is probably true. I wasn't sold on him until the GA game. 

 

I feel like they opened up the offense for that UGA game.  There was nothing to lose.  They even let Stroud run for first downs.  

[frankw]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You have a habit of really relishing the idea of bad things happening so people will be mad.

It's like that's more important to you than seeing the team succeed

Well that's hogwash. Who says it's a bad thing. You? I relish the idea of us drafting a QB in the first that could finally lift this franchise out of this terrible funk where people sit around polishing turds that are failed QB's like Sam Darnold. Or wanting us to throw 30+ million a year at someone like Derek Carr. There are people here who do not want us to draft certain QB's because they still want the game to be played a certain way. I want QB in the first and I'll support whoever it is. But again I know if it's Stroud or Richardson the same folks who groaned about Newton and now Fields will continue the same trend. Me? I just want to win. And I want a QB who is going to bring some attitude to this team not this aw shucks just happy to be here nonsense.

[raleigh-panther]

Seems pretty accurate to me 

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

Tell that to Bucky Brooks. He has Hooker rated ahead of Levis and AR.  It's a long way to draft night. Anything can happen. 

I agree anything can happen and watched most UT games because of where I live (Knoxville).  I don't think Hooker is a 1st round talent.  He looked very below average at VT with a traditional offense.  That Tennessee spread offense offense got his WRs wide open a lot.  It will be a big jump to go from that to a traditional NFL offense, now throw in his ACL and age.  He has a decent arm and is strong/fast for the position.  I would place him in the 2nd/3rd before the injury, but what do I know?  A lot less than Bucky Brooks when it comes to the NFL that's for sure...

[MasterAwesome]

3 hours ago, Varking said:

At work but I don’t think you and I are far off from each other. 

I mean I'm at work too...but it's Friday afternoon, just slack off like the rest of us you overachiever.

[MasterAwesome]

4 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Some interesting data to unpack here. Without a doubt Fields holds the ball too long. I think in college he got away with it because he could just out run or overpower defenders if they got pressure. I found it funny when scouts were saying he was a “one read” QB. He definitely went through his reads, just spent too long doing so (probably processing speed is a factor).

The pressure rate is what’s throwing me off. The Eagles have a great OL right now with basically the same players. PFF rated them as 4th in the league in 2021, but we all know how inconsistent it was about the Bears this year with a top 10 OL and two starters being in the bottom 5 for pass protection and a 3rd being the in lower half.

Yeah there is no way I watched all the Eagles games or Bears. I do good to catch all the Panthers games. Hell even if I did watch them I doubt I have the football IQ to legitimately break down the film and see where the issues were aside from the obvious…

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

There is the PFF article I was referring to for whatever it’s worth…

Yeah PFF is a little more ambiguous and murky because we don't know exactly how their grading is determined and it's a very holistic metric that accounts for every aspect of o-line performance (pass blocking, run blocking, penalties, etc.).  It kinda makes sense if PFF inflated the grade of the Eagles' 2021 o-line because it'd be consistent with them inflating the grade of the 2022 Bears' o-line.  So I think PFF is okay to use as a comparative tool (i.e. comparing one PFF score to another PFF score) since at least their methodology, however flawed, would be consistently applied.

I would think something like Pressure Rate would be a bit more straightforward because it's a very specific focused metric.  But even that would involve some subjectivity with respect to when a QB meets that specific threshold of being "pressured" or not.  I'm guessing it depends on how close a defender is to the QB, but probably more of a snap judgment than some kind of precise measurement.  But again since it'd theoretically be the same methodology applied consistently, I would feel comfortable comparing Pro-Football-Reference's Pressure Rate for 2021 Hurts against Pro-Football-Reference's Pressure Rate for 2022 Fields.

[Frizzy350]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:34 AM, Varking said:

1. The Bears aren’t going to trade Fields. 
2. If the Bears were trying to trade Fields I don’t believe a single first rounder is going to do it for a multitude of reasons. The Bears moved up to get him. So they invested multiple picks. He has improved as a passer despite his lack of weapons around him. He has shown he might be the top runner in all of football which will allow him more time to develop as a passer. He got an MVP vote this year. 
3. if we could have Fields going into his year 3 for just the #9 overall pick that would be a steal for us and I’d do it in a heartbeat. 
4. It wouldn’t make sense from a team standpoint for the Bears. Are you a better team with Stroud, Levis, Young or Richardson plus another player at 9 Vs Fields plus all the additional picks you get could for trading down one or two times? 
 

Does it make sense for us? Yes. Does it make sense for the Bears? No. 

I agree but not for the same reasons.

 

The Bears suck.

They suck hard.

As skeptical everyone is about Fields' ability to take his passing game to the next level, he's still probably the best player on that team.

When the roster is this devoid of talent - it makes WAY more sense to trade down, take the BPA with every pick, and hope to draft a core group of guys you can build a team around.  The Bears have nothing to lose letting Fields start for a few more years.  If he does not improve they can always move on from him.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, frankw said:

Well that's hogwash. Who says it's a bad thing. You? I relish the idea of us drafting a QB in the first that could finally lift this franchise out of this terrible funk where people sit around polishing turds that are failed QB's like Sam Darnold. Or wanting us to throw 30+ million a year at someone like Derek Carr. There are people here who do not want us to draft certain QB's because they still want the game to be played a certain way. I want QB in the first and I'll support whoever it is. But again I know if it's Stroud or Richardson the same folks who groaned about Newton and now Fields will continue the same trend. Me? I just want to win. And I want a QB who is going to bring some attitude to this team not this aw shucks just happy to be here nonsense.

Yeah sure

You just also want people you disagree with to be mad and unhappy. Same as with your long-running feud with people who were fans of Christian McCaffrey, who you hoped would get traded (again, just to make people mad) regardless of whether it was the best thing for the team or not.

You're pretty transparent.

[frankw]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah sure

You just also want people you disagree with to be mad and unhappy. Same as with your long-running feud with people who were fans of Christian McCaffrey, who you hoped would get traded (again, just to make people mad) regardless of whether it was the best thing for the team or not.

You're pretty transparent.

You're still stewing about McCaffrey? Time to move on big guy!