Offensive support cast ranked 31st in the league

[pantherclaw]

TE's are consistently over drafted. 

[Ricky Spanish]

7 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

TE's are consistently over drafted. 

This.

TEs, like RBs, should never be drafted in the 1st round.

[panthers55]

40 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, the Ravens are TE centric.   Atlanta wanted TE to be a focal point.  Young TEs thrived both places too. 

The Ravens werent tight end centric the 2 years Hurst was there.  In 2018 Hurst had 13 catches and Andrew's had 34. In 2019 they both doubled their production. Hurst had 30 as the number 2 TE and Andrew's had 64 as the number 1 TE.  But that was less than Andrews had in 2021 alone. Are they tight end centric now? Yes. But Hurst played behind a future probowler but when he caught the ball averaged over 10 yards a catch. So his production was understandable.

In Atlanta in 2020 he was the number 1 and  upped his production to 56 catches and right at 600 yards but fell to 26 in 2021 when Kyle Pitts had 64 catches for 1000 yards. Of course Pitts was injured and in 10 game had 28 catches for under 400 yards in 2022. So other than 1 great year by Pitts neither team was tight end centric when Hurst was there.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The Ravens werent tight end centric the 2 years Hurst was there.  In 2018 Hurst had 13 catches and Andrew's had 34. In 2019 they both doubled their production. Hurst had 30 as the number 2 TE and Andrew's had 64 as the number 1 TE.  But that was less than Andrews had in 2021 alone. Are they tight end centric now? Yes. But Hurst played behind a future probowler but when he caught the ball averaged over 10 yards a catch. So his production was understandable.

In Atlanta in 2020 he was the number 1 and  upped his production to 56 catches and right at 600 yards but fell to 26 in 2021 when Kyle Pitts had 64 catches for 1000 yards. Of course Pitts was injured and in 10 game had 28 catches for under 400 yards in 2022. So other than 1 great year by Pitts neither team was tight end centric when Hurst was there.

 

Maybe they weren't TE centric during that time because Hurst wasn't the guy they thought he was going to be? I mean, some teams actually do adapt to their rosters. Trust me, as a Panthers fan it's sometimes tough for me to wrap my head around that one too.

[panthers55]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Maybe they weren't TE centric during that time because Hurst wasn't the guy they thought he was going to be? I mean, some teams actually do adapt to their rosters. Trust me, as a Panthers fan it's sometimes tough for me to wrap my head around that one too.

More likely both Hurst and Andrew's were young and needed  experience. Neither were great those 2 years. I don't think you can blame Hurst for not having a great rookie year especially splitting catches with Andrews. Hurst isnt great but with a cap hit of 3 million this year he should earn his keep.

[GoobyPls]

I don’t think we are that bad, we’ve had worst weapons in the past. I rather have our weapons over a handful of teams 

[CRA]

11 hours ago, panthers55 said:

The Ravens werent tight end centric the 2 years Hurst was there.  In 2018 Hurst had 13 catches and Andrew's had 34. In 2019 they both doubled their production. Hurst had 30 as the number 2 TE and Andrew's had 64 as the number 1 TE.  But that was less than Andrews had in 2021 alone. Are they tight end centric now? Yes. But Hurst played behind a future probowler but when he caught the ball averaged over 10 yards a catch. So his production was understandable.

In Atlanta in 2020 he was the number 1 and  upped his production to 56 catches and right at 600 yards but fell to 26 in 2021 when Kyle Pitts had 64 catches for 1000 yards. Of course Pitts was injured and in 10 game had 28 catches for under 400 yards in 2022. So other than 1 great year by Pitts neither team was tight end centric when Hurst was there.

 

How were the Ravens not TE centric?  In 2019, the most targeted player on the entire offense was a TE.  Andrews.  Lead the team in targets, receptions, and TDs.  Of the top 5 targeted players, 3 of the 5 were TEs.    Hurst was there.   Hurst's problem was even TE Nick Boyle got more targets than him that season.   They were definitely focused on the TE spot.   2019 was the start of the Lamar era.  Which is what the 2018 draft was about setting up. 

Hurst essentially landed in 2 ideal spots back to back for a TE.  2 teams committed to making the TE a big part of the O.  Better TEs simply took over the role or were brought in.   But he was basically given first dips at being the dude at both spots.  It just didn't work out for him to be the dude at either.

He is a fine player.  I always thought he was over drafted.  So expectations were always too high early on.  

 

 

 

[WhoKnows]

14 hours ago, CRA said:

Again, the bust tag has to do with draft position/performance. So yeah, you could be a solid 10 year NFL JAG…..and be a bust.  

2 things can be true.  But rarely accepted on message boards. 

Not worth arguing. He’s trying to say he hasn’t been a bust (relative to draft position) because he’s never been more than the #3 target on his 3 teams in 5 years. That’s literally proving you and @LinvilleGorge’s points. Same with well he was behind Mark Andrews. Welp, if you are drafted in the 1st, you are expected to beat out a 3rd rounder and expected to be a top target, especially because TEs only get drafted in the 1st if they are top, top prospects. We think he can contribute so we signed him but the folks thinking Olsen are very likely going to be disappointed. Olsen was better with the Bears even though they didn’t use him a lot and traded him away and the rest is history but he didn’t get beat out by lesser players, ever. He was just in an offense that wasn’t TE friendly. Hurst was not in the same situation.

Again, he should be useful to us because we don’t have a front line TE. Hurst should be the starter day 1 and the entire year, but he’s been a disappointment so far for a 1st rounder who turns 30 in training camp.

[mav1234]

The bust term is always associated with where folks are drafted, and so Hurst has, to this point, been a bust. He could still bounce back, and I expect he'll be a solid contributor for us.  But we can't pretend he hasn't had an opportunity to show up.  He has.

[panthers55]

48 minutes ago, CRA said:

How were the Ravens not TE centric?  In 2019, the most targeted player on the entire offense was a TE.  Andrews.  Lead the team in targets, receptions, and TDs.  Of the top 5 targeted players, 3 of the 5 were TEs.    Hurst was there.   Hurst's problem was even TE Nick Boyle got more targets than him that season.   They were definitely focused on the TE spot.   2019 was the start of the Lamar era.  Which is what the 2018 draft was about setting up. 

Hurst essentially landed in 2 ideal spots back to back for a TE.  2 teams committed to making the TE a big part of the O.  Better TEs simply took over the role or were brought in.   But he was basically given first dips at being the dude at both spots.  It just didn't work out for him to be the dude at either.

He is a fine player.  I always thought he was over drafted.  So expectations were always too high early on.  

 

 

 

In  2018 Baltimore  passed for 3550 yards  and  all 4 tight ends accounted for roughly 1000 yards They had 235 passes and tight ends had 86.  Snead, Crabtree and Brown were wide receivers who all had more yards than Andrew. Sorry but if your best tight end is 4th in catches that doesn't make you tight end centric by my definition.  

[RumHam]

all i know is athlon sports picked us to win the division.

[CRA]

30 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

In  2018 Baltimore  passed for 3550 yards  and  all 4 tight ends accounted for roughly 1000 yards They had 235 passes and tight ends had 86.  Snead, Crabtree and Brown were wide receivers who all had more yards than Andrew. Sorry but if your best tight end is 4th in catches that doesn't make you tight end centric by my definition.  

lol 2018 play isn't a representation of what they wanted to do going forward and there play.  Joe Flacco was the QB.  The offense was about to change and they drafted the pieces for that change/future in 2018.    

2019 is when the commitment to the TE O and scheme hit the field.   The Lamar era began.  Which is what the 2018 draft was about. 

most targeted player? TE

most receptions? TE

most TDs? TE

TEs were 3 of the 5 most targeted players in the passing game. 

Hurst was there.  Which is what I responding to. Problem again for Hurst....is he was the 3rd most targeted TE in the TE heavy scheme and was first round pick.    Front office went about correcting the glaring error pretty quick and parted w/ the first round pick after 2 seasons.  Not because they weren't about the TE.    TE was the plan for the Lamar era.  Which that era speaks for itself.  

And the Ravens stayed committed to the TE going forward there year after year after year just without the dude that was suppose to be the lead of it.  Hurst.  

 

 

[panthers55]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

lol 2018 play isn't a representation of what they wanted to do going forward and there play.  Joe Flacco was the QB.  The offense was about to change and they drafted the pieces for that change/future in 2018.

2019 is when the commitment to the TE O and scheme hit the field.  

most targeted player? TE

most receptions? TE

most TDs? TE

TEs were 3 of the 5 most targeted players in the passing game. 

Hurst was there.  Problem again for Hurst....is he was the 3rd most targeted TE in the TE heavy scheme and was first round pick.   

And the Ravens stayed committed to the TE going forward there year after year after year just without the dude that was suppose to be the lead of it.  Hurst. 

 

You are right they did have a plan which is run the ball. They had more rushing yards than passing yards. You are right that Andrews had the most targets but that likely reflects Jackson's limitations as a passer rather than a design. Tight ends caught more balls because Jackson was liimited in what he could throw.  That makes you tight end friendly by default not design. 

In 2020 Baltimore threw for even less yards than 2019 and Brown was the leading receiver not Andrew's. Part of the reason Andrew's got 700 yards was because he didn't have to share with any other  tight ends. And again out of 2700 yards TEs accounted for around 1/3 of all passing yards. So no Baltimore  wasn't tight end centric by design.

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You are right they did have a plan which is run the ball. They had more rushing yards than passing yards. You are right that Andrews had the most targets but that likely reflects Jackson's limitations as a passer rather than a design. Tight ends caught more balls because Jackson was liimited in what he could throw.  That makes you tight end friendly by default not design. 

In 2020 Baltimore threw for even less yards than 2019 and Brown was the leading receiver not Andrew's. Part of the reason Andrew's got 700 yards was because he didn't have to share with any other  tight ends. And again out of 2700 yards TEs accounted for around 1/3 of all passing yards. So no Baltimore  wasn't tight end centric by design.

Yes, they did have a plan to run the ball.  The passing component of that offense was TE centric.    It was literally all planned out in 2018.  You draft Lamar, you build a team around Lamar and what his strengths will be.  Which they did in the 2018 draft.   

2019 TE had the most receptions, yards and TDs

2020 TE had the most receptions, 2nd yards and TDs

2021 TE had the most receptions, yards and TDs. 

That was supposed to be Hurst.  That was the plan.  Only he was overdrafted and wasn't capable to fill that role.  So someone else did.   

But it is undeniable it was an ideal spot for a talented TE to be drafted into because of the emphasis the position would have in the passing O.  Andrews was supposed to be #2.  It was quickly evident Andrews was significantly better than the first rounder and that was a problem.  So they solved it quick.  Hurst was sent packing after 2 years.  A rarity in the NFL.  And it has nothing to do with him not being in a place for a TE to thrive.  That's what the Ravens wanted for the TE and Lamar.  And that's why you waste a first round pick on a TE....to be a focal point in an offensive scheme.