Offensive support cast ranked 31st in the league

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I mean, Thielen and Chark are proven producers. Not to mention Hurst at TE. The rest of the guys, yea young potential. We do have proven production, maybe not not five or ten proven production, but middle of the pack surely. 

Thielen is a proven producer but is on the decline. Chark is a proven producer but requires that dreaded "when healthy" addendum. Hurst is basically an outright bust of a former 1st round TE. I mean, let's be honest, 1700 yards over the course of 5 seasons just isn't good.

[trucpfan]

26 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Thielen’s production recently is only barely below DJ’s and he was the #2, not getting #1 volume. Sure Chark is oft injured but he’s still proven. Few teams have five proven vets at WR. It’s usually two or three and young guys, like us. I’m not saying we should be considered upper tier, but completely discounting Thielen and Chark is ridiculous. We’re better at WR than we were last year, that’s for sure.  And there are multiple teams with worse than aging Thielen and injury risk Chark as their #1 and 2. 

I agree I’m not discounting them but let me put context to the thoughts I presented. AT and DJ both played with a strong number one option last year A St. B played 16 out of 17 games JJ played all 17 so typical they would draw the best corner right? Typically they’d draw coverage giving other players a chance to preform. Who on our team draws extra attention or warrants the best DB? I’m not saying they aren’t good WRs I’m saying no one pushes the defense freeing up others. We don’t have a threat that you would say let’s game plan for I like the additions with what we have especially a young Mingo but we don’t have weapons that present any problems yet for any defenses which is why our offensive players are ranked so low. Hopefully someone like TMJ breaks out but that’s just a hope for now so based off what we currently have we don’t present a major weapon offensively hence the low ratings.

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Thielen is a proven producer but is on the decline. Chark is a proven producer but requires that dreaded "when healthy" addendum. Hurst is basically an outright bust of a former 1st round TE. I mean, let's be honest, 1700 yards over the course of 5 seasons just isn't good.

This. We overrate our players. To the outside world, Thielen is an older guy who last had a great year in 2018 and Minnesota didn’t want him anymore. Chark is an often injured WR who Jax didn’t want and whose last great year was 2019. TMJ had 2 more yards than Shaheed in NO and Shaheed started 6 games. Our top 3 WRs and top TE combined for 2100 yards. Jefferson had 300 yards less than our 4 guys. That’s dismal production and it makes sense we’re ranked so low on a WR/TE/RB ranking even with Sanders.

I hope Young makes them look better than they are and Mingo really flashes but that ranking is based on actual results. Proven vets getting 400, 500 and 700 yards in a 17 game season aren’t average, they are well below that.

I will add that I’m glad we added Hurst, Thielen and Chark for very little money because if we went with last year’s squad minus DJ, ooh wee mayne, we’d have done Young wrong.

Edited June 27, 2023 by WhoKnows

[CamWhoaaCam]

It's okay Dhop is on the way!

[OneBadCat]

It really just depends on how Bryce does. We don't have superstars everywhere. But theoretically we have an offensive answer to damn near every situation we could encounter. We have a veteran WR who knows how to get open, we have speed in Chark/Byrd/Shi Smith. We have two guys with physicality, size, and 4.4 speed to win contested catches in TMJ and Mingo.

Then we've got Sanders whos an all around great weapon. All we're missing is a bruising RB. I'm not expecting a ton out of Hurst. But him in combination with Tremble should be good enough to make those 3rd QTR grabs that move the chains. 

[panthers55]

19 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

This. We overrate our players. To the outside world, Thielen is an older guy who last had a great year in 2018 and Minnesota didn’t want him anymore. Chark is an often injured WR who Jax didn’t want and whose last great year was 2019. TMJ had 2 more yards than Shaheed in NO and Shaheed started 6 games. Our top 3 WRs and top TE combined for 2100 yards. Jefferson had 300 yards less than our 4 guys. That’s dismal production and it makes sense we’re ranked so low on a WR/TE/RB ranking even with Sanders.

I hope Young makes them look better than they are and Mingo really flashes but that ranking is based on actual results. Proven vets getting 400, 500 and 700 yards in a 17 game season aren’t average, they are well below that.

I will add that I’m glad we added Hurst, Thielen and Chark for very little money because if we went with last year’s squad minus DJ, ooh wee mayne, we’d have done Young wrong.

And you sound like every casual fan looking at stats with little context. TMJ did have 500 yards on less than 30 catches but he averaged 17 yards a catch. He was rated number 1 in go routes meaning he is a great downfield threat. With  Chark as the other deep threat how often will teams load the box? It lets Thielen and Shenault and Sanders operate underneath with more space.  So with an expanded role and perhaps 55 catches he could get 800 or more yards. And he is our third receiver. I could do a similar analysis with other players as well. Football is a team sport and when coached well, the sum of the parts is better than the the parts evaluated separately.  And that is what is going to happen this year. For every fan who overestimates our talent, there are 10 more who are so traumatized and beaten down by the Rhule years they cant see that this is a totally different team and we are ready to have the best ride in our franchise. Yeah 2015 was amazing but we couldn't sustain it. This is starting to feel different to me. Feel free to play small ball and doubt our potential but for me I fully expect to win the division this year given the other competition.

[JawnyBlaze]

1 hour ago, trucpfan said:

I agree I’m not discounting them but let me put context to the thoughts I presented. AT and DJ both played with a strong number one option last year A St. B played 16 out of 17 games JJ played all 17 so typical they would draw the best corner right? Typically they’d draw coverage giving other players a chance to preform. Who on our team draws extra attention or warrants the best DB? I’m not saying they aren’t good WRs I’m saying no one pushes the defense freeing up others. We don’t have a threat that you would say let’s game plan for I like the additions with what we have especially a young Mingo but we don’t have weapons that present any problems yet for any defenses which is why our offensive players are ranked so low. Hopefully someone like TMJ breaks out but that’s just a hope for now so based off what we currently have we don’t present a major weapon offensively hence the low ratings.

The drawing coverage part is one way to look at it, but regardless of coverage they still weren’t pulling #1 targets.  I think with #1 volume of targets Thielen will “bounce back”. In other words, he hasn’t “slowed down” as much as people think, the Vikings just got a megastar who took his targets. 

[panthers55]

Just now, JawnyBlaze said:

The drawing coverage part is one way to look at it, but regardless of coverage they still weren’t pulling #1 targets.  I think with #1 volume of targets Thielen will “bounce back”. In other words, he hasn’t “slowed down” as much as people think, the Vikings just got a megastar who took his targets. 

And he is motivated to prove he still has it and that the Vikings shouldn't have let him go.  Everyone who has played football knows that desire and playing with a chip on your shoulder can elevate your play beyond what is expected. He might not have a chip on his shoulder as big as Smitty but I expecIt Thielen to look very good this year.

[WhoKnows]

25 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And you sound like every casual fan looking at stats with little context. TMJ did have 500 yards on less than 30 catches but he averaged 17 yards a catch. He was rated number 1 in go routes meaning he is a great downfield threat. With  Chark as the other deep threat how often will teams load the box? It lets Thielen and Shenault and Sanders operate underneath with more space.  So with an expanded role and perhaps 55 catches he could get 800 or more yards. And he is our third receiver. I could do a similar analysis with other players as well. Football is a team sport and when coached well, the sum of the parts is better than the the parts evaluated separately.  And that is what is going to happen this year. For every fan who overestimates our talent, there are 10 more who are so traumatized and beaten down by the Rhule years they cant see that this is a totally different team and we are ready to have the best ride in our franchise. Yeah 2015 was amazing but we couldn't sustain it. This is starting to feel different to me. Feel free to play small ball and doubt our potential but for me I fully expect to win the division this year given the other competition.

SMH. How else do you rank players? Actual stats or fan perception and small sample size extrapolations. Football is a team sport yet you guys are crying disrespect again because we are at the bottom looking at actual results of our receivers.

Funny how now I’m doubting we can win a shitty division because I’m realistic and not ranking WRs/TEs on hope. The Saints were a FG away from the SB in 2018. Atlanta was in the SB in 2016 and we went in 2015. Division was stronger back then. No one in our division is a SB contender. We are going to need better weapons for Young in order to reach Cam’s 2015. Even just Olsen or Cam rushing was a better weapon than any of our WRs/TEs now. We need more to get past just winning the division. We have bright spots and I’ve been asking for a top rookie QB since 2020 offseason but our WRs and TEs aren’t close to the elite guys.

[panthers55]

29 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

SMH. How else do you rank players? Actual stats or fan perception and small sample size extrapolations. Football is a team sport yet you guys are crying disrespect again because we are at the bottom looking at actual results of our receivers.

Funny how now I’m doubting we can win a shitty division because I’m realistic and not ranking WRs/TEs on hope. The Saints were a FG away from the SB in 2018. Atlanta was in the SB in 2016 and we went in 2015. Division was stronger back then. No one in our division is a SB contender. We are going to need better weapons for Young in order to reach Cam’s 2015. Even just Olsen or Cam rushing was a better weapon than any of our WRs/TEs now. We need more to get past just winning the division. We have bright spots and I’ve been asking for a top rookie QB since 2020 offseason but our WRs and TEs aren’t close to the elite guys.

Easy you look at all the factors and you make a projection based on context looking at everything past and present. Your analysis of last year is based on a team playing college ball with no credible offense. Wilks who is clearly not an offensive genius was able to go 6-6 by relying on a run game without their best weapon in CMC and a depleted coaching staff

 He harkened back to our Panther history and our tough physical presence on offense and defense and he turned the season around. So then Reich comes in who was one of us and talks about physicality and toughness. He brings in a number of tough physical players and invites the Panther greats to practice to mentor the team. What is changing is the Panthers are returning to the things that made that 2015 team great. Cam used to say if you don't like the dab then keep me out of the endzone. 

Truth is you don't need elite players to win. You need players who understand their roles and complement each other. You need a system that is player centric getting the most out of every player.  The gestalt of the team will be better than its individual parts. While we aren't going far if we do win the division there is every hope that we can do it this year. I love how everyone slobbobs on Carr yet he has rarely been in the playoffs and has yet to win one.  

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by panthers55

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

It really just depends on how Bryce does. We don't have superstars everywhere. But theoretically we have an offensive answer to damn near every situation we could encounter. We have a veteran WR who knows how to get open, we have speed in Chark/Byrd/Shi Smith. We have two guys with physicality, size, and 4.4 speed to win contested catches in TMJ and Mingo.

Then we've got Sanders whos an all around great weapon. All we're missing is a bruising RB. I'm not expecting a ton out of Hurst. But him in combination with Tremble should be good enough to make those 3rd QTR grabs that move the chains. 

I would rather have four good receivers than an elite guy or two and JAGs. Defenses can gameplan to take away any player if that is the goal. But if you have multiple good players they cant gamelan everyone and you can feed the hot hand.

Edited June 27, 2023 by panthers55

[mav1234]

The stats do not suggest that Theilen is going to have a bounce back year with #1 targets. He basically had his worst season in every statistical category last year and his averages were all down and have been trending as such for a while.  I'm happy with the signing but it's because he's a vet and will be a good mentor.  I can't imagine him having a year like 2017/2018.

[pantherclaw]

8 hours ago, UnluckyforSome said:

Here's my worry, and it ties in a little with what you've mentioned. I think the oline may very well be the strength of the offense, but it may not have the impact we expect. The wr group is not scaring anyone, and Sanders will not have the luxury of playing alongside the Eagles weapons. So, can the passing game keep defenses out of stacking the box? If those receivers aren't getting open or not making plays, the quality of the oline will be minimized. There's a whole bunch of hope and what ifs this year, but I think that's normal for a transition.

We have no receivers that scare anyone? 

Where the hell.do people get this poo from?

We don't have a true bona-fide #1. That doesn't mean we don't have talent, and won't be able to pass the ball. 

Cheese and rice!!!

[pantherclaw]

Our receiving room is deep. 

No argument about no true number 1. But to say we have no talent that scares defenses is just stupid.  

The group will work itself out. 

I guess it's the offseason and the doom and gloom people feel this is something they can stand on.