Former Panther OL Michael Wahle on Ikey

[Johnstonny]

5 minutes ago, NAS said:

I heard him on WFNZ this morning. When asked if Campen can fix him he says there is only so much you can do in team practice. He said this requires a lot of individual technique coaching in the offseason which Ickey doesn’t seem to be investing his time in outside of the club. , and the club can do very little due to the CBA restrictions on offseason programs 

sounds like more of a bust than a fix....

[Doyle]

I’m sick of developing being the issue. 
We need to stop blaming the coaches, and realize at this level the players need to be ready to play in the NFL.  If they aren’t ready don’t draft them.  

[parker]

The Sophomore slump is a thing.  Remember how many people were calling Brown a bust?

[onmyown]

49 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We knew Ickey was a physical specimen that needed refinement, especially in pass protection.

But the Panthers drafting players and them not developing a bit is becoming quite a thing. TMJ was better as a rookie than he is now. Ickey was better as a rookie than he is now. Chinn should've been the DROY and we could barely find a way to get him on the field this year. Burns is still a talented pass rusher who is a liability against the run. The list goes on and on. Our rookies tend to be at their best on draft day. That's concerning to say the least.

This is directly related to god awful coaching (Rhule) who don’t play players to their strengths let alone actually develop them.

One just needs to look to the Browns and all the ‘talent’ they amassed via top picks year after year and and completely wasted it away away to see an example of pure dysfunctional franchise and shitty morale and an engrained losing culture.

Bad FO and personnel will devastate a franchise more than people seem to realize.

Edited November 2, 2023 by onmyown

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, onmyown said:

This is directly related to god awful coaching (Rhule) who don’t play players to their strengths let alone actually develop them.

One just needs to look to the Browns and all the ‘talent’ they amassed via top picks and wasted away to see it.

Bad FO and personnel will devastate a franchise more than people seem to realize.

We gotta stop leaning on the Rhule crutch. He gone. He been gone.

[Doyle]

Whale was a stud.  He ran over the DT’s like they were high schoolers.   

[onmyown]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We gotta stop leaning on the Rhule crutch. He gone. He been gone.

That’s exactly my point. Terrible moves like that linger even after the fact.

[Byrdman4real]

21 minutes ago, Doyle said:

I’m sick of developing being the issue. 
We need to stop blaming the coaches, and realize at this level the players need to be ready to play in the NFL.  If they aren’t ready don’t draft them.  

This

[WUnderhill]

It kind of seems like maybe he wasn’t working in the off-season. The teams get so little practice time with these guys now they have to be diligent working on their own. Wahle is saying his footwork is bad. That’s a repetition thing. I’m not a fan of Campen with the way this OL is performing, but I highly doubt he isn’t teaching proper footwork. It’s up to a young guy to take what he’s taught and drill the repetition on his own if he wants to be great. Of course this is all speculation on my part and I could be way off.

[SmokinwithWilly]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Understood. What I was getting at though is that if it were on coaching, I think there'd be similar problems across the board.

What I've said before about this season, and still believe, is that Ickey is out of his element in our current blocking scheme. Last year's heavy run emphasis was more his game if you want him to play the left tackle spot. Left tackle in a WCO is typically manned more by a smaller, more agile type.

If we kept the emphasis we had last year, I'd have said keep him on the outside. In an offense of primarily WCO concepts though, he makes much more sense at guard.

I get what you're saying. I think Icky has been relying more on his athleticism than other linemen. They could very easily just be overmatched athletically, skill, and scheme. I think it's likely a combo of trying to take power rushing and turn it into a WCO style offense like you said. Being quick laterally and being able to use a rushing defender's momentum against them to direct them out of position is pretty much how the position needs to be played in a WCO. To run what we're doing now, we should have moved BC back to LT and put Icky inside. 

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I get what you're saying. I think Icky has been relying more on his athleticism than other linemen. They could very easily just be overmatched athletically, skill, and scheme. I think it's likely a combo of trying to take power rushing and turn it into a WCO style offense like you said. Being quick laterally and being able to use a rushing defender's momentum against them to direct them out of position is pretty much how the position needs to be played in a WCO. To run what we're doing now, we should have moved BC back to LT and put Icky inside. 

The one clip shows Ickey trying to do exactly what you describe...and failing.

34 minutes ago, Doyle said:

I’m sick of developing being the issue. We need to stop blaming the coaches, and realize at this level the players need to be ready to play in the NFL.  If they aren’t ready don’t draft them.  

That's kind of a tough ask when it comes to offensive linemen.

Changes to the college game, especially shifting away from pro style systems, have made it a lot harder to find the right guys in the draft.

Some coaches are of the opinion that current college prospects are far less "pro ready" than they used to be, especially at spots like offensive line and wide receiver.

[BombzAway]

Yeah... this sounds like an individual are you playing the game or "Do you love the game" kind of thing... Kid has to get his sh1t together.

[Tbe]

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

You can't just plug the most athletic person in at a position and expect them to succeed. Technique trumps athleticism 90% of the time at this level. The bigger question than draft picks is how has our amazing oline coach not addressed these things? 

Micheal address that on wfnz. He said coaches only have so much time with players and they have to spend that time with the entire OL, not just one guy,

He said to get good, players have to put in the work outside practice with coaches they hire outside the team.

[SmokinwithWilly]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The one clip shows Ickey trying to do exactly what you describe...and failing.

Yep. But that's a part of the switch from power run to WCO style. It's a lot easier to describe than actually do. Our line coach used to call it big boy ballet. Driving forward for run is easy. Being light on your feet is damn hard going backwards and sideways. He wanted us taking dance classes just to work on our footwork and balance. Add hand fighting and leverage into the mix and it's a lot to ask. Ickey was the best run blocking mauler in the draft. Cross was the most pass pro ready. Ickey was the pick for Rhule's run heavy scheme. That's why firing him 5 games into the season made no sense. It should have been done before the draft so a new coach could have a scheme ready drafting a key position like LT. I think it boils down to just an overall lack of any type of identity.