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PFF Day 2 WR projection. Different take

raleigh-panther

By raleigh-panther,
in Carolina Panthers

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Growl Grand Master

Growl

Posted
Posted
On 4/14/2024 at 7:46 PM, csx said:

Good receivers are good receivers. I think too much is being made out of some special recipe for Young. 

it doesn’t even really make sense, Young made heavy use of an explosive vertical threat at Alabama and having one on the field loosens things underneath.

 

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XClown1986 Proficient

XClown1986

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I think everyone needs to go back and realize what Jameson Williams did for Young at Alabama and how desperately he missed him in the Championship Game and in his final year. We need a guy that can blow the top off of the defense at any moment. I have no doubt that if a guy like Thomas were to slip, he would be the pick. I honestly think Franklin and Legette are higher on our board because of their ability to stretch defenses. We have to make defenses respect the perimeter, or else Young will be facing 5-6 man blitzes and 8 man boxes again all year.

All this talk about route technicians and stuff is overblown. Why do you think we traded for Dionte and kept Thielen? We have those guys for the interim. Want to see Young make a leap in year 2? Get him big, fast receivers that can spin corners around and force safeties to hang back an extra few yards.

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strato Grand Master

strato

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I don’t care if you got Randy Moss in his prime, the QB has to get the ball to him. 

On deep routes... here are two ways that might happen as far as I can see and one involves a very slow developing rollout and about 5-6 yards of open ground to generate momentum for that 35-40 yard throw. Which will end up 25-30 yards past the LOS. That is about his maximum range. You are not getting much more.

The other,  launch to a predetermined spot from with the same 5-6 yards of space from behind those guards. 

 

What they need to do is get guys who can best operate within 20 yards of the LOS. Any reasonably fast  fool can run a fly route that probably won’t be completed, to loosen up the D.

 

edit: It is simple as hell: if you don’t want to be restricted to this sort of attack, you don’t draft this quarterback.

Edited by strato
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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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On 4/16/2024 at 11:34 AM, CRA said:

Ginn had that F U speed though.   Which I don't think this guy really has

Tedd Ginn could run by anybody. Anybody. If you tried to press him and missed, you had better hope the QB wasn't looking his way. If you let him break your cushion within 5 yards and didn't turn to run, same thing. But then again, you had a 50/50 chance he would actually catch the ball when it hit him in the hands and chest.

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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18 minutes ago, strato said:

I don’t care if you got Randy Moss in his prime, the QB has to get the ball to him. 

On deep routes... here are two ways that might happen as far as I can see and one involves a very slow developing rollout and about 5-6 yards of open ground to generate momentum for that 35-40 yard throw. Which will end up 25-30 yards past the LOS. That is about his maximum range. You are not getting much more.

The other,  launch to a predetermined spot from with the same 5-6 yards of space from behind those guards. 

 

What they need to do is get guys who can best operate within 20 yards of the LOS. Any reasonably fast  fool can run a fly route that probably won’t be completed, to loosen up the D.

 

edit: It is simple as hell: if you don’t want to be restricted to this sort of attack, you don’t draft this quarterback.

I'm confident Bryce can get the ball to a receiver downfield if given a somewhat clean pocket. He missed on the handfull of deep throws, but every QB misses those throws at times. He just didn't take enough shots. That's a problem in itself, but a different problem. No one is hitting a high percentage of deep balls with just ok receivers and a low-end o line. Do you really think Bryce can't accurately throw over 40 yards, when he actually overthrew his deep passes to Mingo and TMJ last season? They weren't underthrown. 

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strato Grand Master

strato

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I'm confident Bryce can get the ball to a receiver downfield if given a somewhat clean pocket. He missed on the handfull of deep throws, but every QB misses those throws at times. He just didn't take enough shots. That's a problem in itself, but a different problem. No one is hitting a high percentage of deep balls with just ok receivers and a low-end o line. Do you really think Bryce can't accurately throw over 40 yards, when he actually overthrew his deep passes to Mingo and TMJ last season? They weren't underthrown. 

Yeah I do. I have watched him. Maybe 45 in the air with nobody in pads pressuring him, and allowing for his launch routine. But that is MAX effort. (I don’t mind being corrected if I am in error, but I believe that is a fair assessment. 

If I really wanted to debate it, which this is about all I am gonna offer because I think you are a reasonable fan and we can disagree. Anyhow, for people to consider:

I would for sure bet that he is using every bit of what he has to make those throws and cannot deliver the deep ball accurately with consistency. Not when you have to use 100% of your effort.

Maybe that is why he only hit a couple of downfield throws. And with his accuracy issues, he very possibly just got lucky with where those balls came down. The vast majority of his 2023 deep throws, were off target (that is simply a fact, but I am waiting for the excusers to come in with the WRs stopped or ran a bad route, it is all their fault).

An analogy to illustrate: In baseball, pitchers go 100%, the accuracy suffers. It is well acknowledged in the sport. Those that really do well back off the effort to throw as hard as they can to get velocity, and focus on accuracy. Placement.

Of course, that is easier to do when you CAN throw the hell out it if you want to. Much easier. They dial their 97 mph throws down a bit and bingo, 93 with placement (and better movement which we don’t care about in football).

Bottom line, I do not believe his Accurate range; without a runway and without that little hop and skip at the end of it and not using all 100% of what he has in him, 25-30 yards in the air. I haven’t measured, that is an educated guess. Plus or minus a little. 

 I am gonna bet the farm that will hold true for deep balls. If you go all out effort, it negatively affects your placement. And that is more wny Young cannot hit open people at the boundaries of his range, but can hit them accurately 20 to 25 yards away. 

 

Do something for mew Navy, tell me if you see what I saw. Watch his pro day. Watch his footwork. Tell me you see or do not see that skip hop thing, that will eat 10 feet or so more real estate towards the LOS IIRC. It takes precious time as well. That is what put me off of him right away. More than the inadequate height and build. 

 

Edited by strato
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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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6 hours ago, Navy_football said:

I'm confident Bryce can get the ball to a receiver downfield if given a somewhat clean pocket. He missed on the handfull of deep throws, but every QB misses those throws at times. He just didn't take enough shots. That's a problem in itself, but a different problem. No one is hitting a high percentage of deep balls with just ok receivers and a low-end o line. Do you really think Bryce can't accurately throw over 40 yards, when he actually overthrew his deep passes to Mingo and TMJ last season? They weren't underthrown. 

He was pretty bad a deep throws in college, so it was not a surprise that carried over to the NFL. 

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Bear Hands Grand Master

Bear Hands

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9 hours ago, XClown1986 said:

I think everyone needs to go back and realize what Jameson Williams did for Young at Alabama and how desperately he missed him in the Championship Game and in his final year. We need a guy that can blow the top off of the defense at any moment. I have no doubt that if a guy like Thomas were to slip, he would be the pick. I honestly think Franklin and Legette are higher on our board because of their ability to stretch defenses. We have to make defenses respect the perimeter, or else Young will be facing 5-6 man blitzes and 8 man boxes again all year.

All this talk about route technicians and stuff is overblown. Why do you think we traded for Dionte and kept Thielen? We have those guys for the interim. Want to see Young make a leap in year 2? Get him big, fast receivers that can spin corners around and force safeties to hang back an extra few yards.

Fair argument.  Stretching a defense vertically is just as important as spreading them out. 

 

 

 

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