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Why is no one considering double dip at WR?

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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4 minutes ago, CRA said:

zooming out though? 

We had THE worst offense in the NFL.  Improving on the O is a bigger need than improving on the D.  And you have legit D coach in Carolina that likely can do more via scheme than reliance on individuals.  We don't have the same type proven coaching in the O side. 

Really good point. I think we forget that defense (particularly secondary) can be schemed to hide weaker areas a lot easier than offense.

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Mistuh Jones Mentor

Mistuh Jones

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7 minutes ago, CRA said:

zooming out though? 

We had THE worst offense in the NFL.  Improving on the O is a bigger need than improving on the D.  And you have legit D coach in Carolina that likely can do more via scheme than reliance on individuals.  We don't have the same type proven coaching in the O side. 

Salient point, however, a hopeful revamp of the offensive line along with a running game and Dionte Johnson should help a bunch with that. Add a TE and this offense is viable again. But Horn being the only good CB will bite us sooner than later IMHO. I agree with you offense is more important this year for sure, but replacing 2 starting CB's is a lot harder than adding another

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amcoolio Veteran

amcoolio

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6 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

think your confusing jags for franchise or game changing players. What did Mingo or ISM do last year to show you they can elevate bryce young to be on par with Stroud or even Richardson for that matter? Nothing..  you can't go into the season saying hey we got ISM and Mingo we are ready to roll.

 

6 hours ago, rayzor said:

no one in that room is good enough reason for us not to draft 2 good WRs from this class who could be long term contributors.

 

 

6 hours ago, CRA said:

No room? We have the league’s worst offense We got zero long term offensive skill position players on the roster.  We have a huge investment we are trying to save at QB.  Fixing the O should be priority 1, 2 and 3. 

Mingo and ISM combined for 450 yards and no TDs.  And there is no guarantee they are better next year. 

the highlights to our roster are a WR that can’t run and had really bad per touch production we forced the ball to and a disgruntled WR the rest of the league didn’t want…..whose former team has a track record of getting rid of dudes who fall off a cliff after doing so. 

we got room

I'm well aware of our sucky pass catchers. I should have clarified. No room to develop two rookies along with trying to develop Mingo and ISM. No way we keep three first and second year receivers on the active roster and expect them to produce. Now maybe a flyer on someone in the 5th or later, but double dipping in the 2nd is stupid and it means you are giving up on Mingo basically who we just drafted with a high 2nd last year.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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27 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

I'm well aware of our sucky pass catchers. I should have clarified. No room to develop two rookies along with trying to develop Mingo and ISM. No way we keep three first and second year receivers on the active roster and expect them to produce. Now maybe a flyer on someone in the 5th or later, but double dipping in the 2nd is stupid and it means you are giving up on Mingo basically who we just drafted with a high 2nd last year.

ISM is just a body.  We were his 3rd team in 3 years and he hasn't done anything.   

basically, it's Theilen, Johnson, and Mingo.  Everyone else could go and it just be business.  I mean, technically we got 8 WRs under contact I think right now. 

I guess there is a question on David Moore, I'm not sure if all the info is up on the salary sites.  But it looks like they could even cut if they wanted to.  It doesn't look like he has any guaranteed money. 

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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3 hours ago, CRA said:

ISM is just a body.  We were his 3rd team in 3 years and he hasn't done anything.   

basically, it's Theilen, Johnson, and Mingo.  Everyone else could go and it just be business.  I mean, technically we got 8 WRs under contact I think right now. 

I guess there is a question on David Moore, I'm not sure if all the info is up on the salary sites.  But it looks like they could even cut if they wanted to.  It doesn't look like he has any guaranteed money. 

What Morgan should be focusing on it getting the best players from the draft group that is available to him this year. If that happens to be a defensive player he shouldn't pass on the guy just because he needs offensive talent. Especially if what's available for offensive help is not on the same level of said defensive player. It just comes down to who's still on the board when he picks. Not every position need can or will be addressed in this draft. It simply will not happen because no team is that lucky for one thing and this team is in bad, really bad shape. Secondly, no draft is filled with enough talent to allow for any team to walk away with more than one possible starter and one or two contributors in any one draft. I think everyone needs to curb their expectations about this year's draft.

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jfra78 Grand Master

jfra78

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The more I think about 2 WRs will just be a waste.  The majority of passes will go to Johnson, Theilen will get a lot of looks and we need to see what we have in Mingo.  This team will run a lot because that's the only way Bryce can be successful.  Why get a 3rd or 4th option and a 5th option at wr when you can get 3 starters on day 2.   We can always get a wr next year, if Johnson moves on and Mingo is clearly a bust.

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micnificent28 Veteran

micnificent28

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2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

The more I think about 2 WRs will just be a waste.  The majority of passes will go to Johnson, Theilen will get a lot of looks and we need to see what we have in Mingo.  This team will run a lot because that's the only way Bryce can be successful.  Why get a 3rd or 4th option and a 5th option at wr when you can get 3 starters on day 2.   We can always get a wr next year, if Johnson moves on and Mingo is clearly a bust.

Thielen is literally a shell of what he use to be. sure he runs good routes still but he has clearly lost a step and shoulsnt stop you from getting a talented player and long term option. Johnson was let go because he was their number 1 options? their castaway is our number 1 let that sink in... no one is letting number 1 options walk with no compensation. In a historic wr deep class taking 2 is perfectly acceptable.

We don't know what Mingo prognosis is but i didn't see anything from him that said future star.. at best he might be a 3rd option? You can't go into the season saying any of these guys are in your Long term plans.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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3 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Secondly, no draft is filled with enough talent to allow for any team to walk away with more than one possible starter and one or two contributors in any one draft.

You talking starters in terms of rookie season or overall? 

I mean we have had drafts with multiple pro bowlers for us and landing 3 or 4 legit starters  for us.  Not the norm but it’s happened a time or two 

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jfra78 Grand Master

jfra78

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47 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Thielen is literally a shell of what he use to be. sure he runs good routes still but he has clearly lost a step and shoulsnt stop you from getting a talented player and long term option. Johnson was let go because he was their number 1 options? their castaway is our number 1 let that sink in... no one is letting number 1 options walk with no compensation. In a historic wr deep class taking 2 is perfectly acceptable.

We don't know what Mingo prognosis is but i didn't see anything from him that said future star.. at best he might be a 3rd option? You can't go into the season saying any of these guys are in your Long term plans.

This year Johnson is our 1 Theilen will be our 2nd option, a rookie will be our 3rd, and Mingo probably our 4th.  Our 4th and 5th options got about 30 targets last year.  Why waste a pick on 30 targets when you can get a starter  with the same pick

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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13 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

This year Johnson is our 1 Theilen will be our 2nd option, a rookie will be our 3rd, and Mingo probably our 4th.  Our 4th and 5th options got about 30 targets last year.  Why waste a pick on 30 targets when you can get a starter  with the same pick

In a Bryce Young O….its doubtful your outside  WR will really be your #1.  

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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45 minutes ago, CRA said:

You talking starters in terms of rookie season or overall? 

I mean we have had drafts with multiple pro bowlers for us and landing 3 or 4 legit starters  for us.  Not the norm but it’s happened a time or two 

In how many drafts? Just because they are forced to start doesn't make them pro bowl level either.  I cannot remember a single draft that the Panthers got multiple pro bowl players from one draft. If they did its been so long ago and uneventful that it wasn't worth remembering. So yeah, it's rare that the Panthers had even a decent draft beyond the 1st round. One good draft will not fix this team. I stand by that even if they miraculously find players that turn into something.

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micnificent28 Veteran

micnificent28

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26 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

This year Johnson is our 1 Theilen will be our 2nd option, a rookie will be our 3rd, and Mingo probably our 4th.  Our 4th and 5th options got about 30 targets last year.  Why waste a pick on 30 targets when you can get a starter  with the same pick

Your being short sighted. I would not let 1 year define the future of my franchise for the next 6-8 seasons. If you hit on 1 or 2 of these guys you set your franchise qb up well as a contender for most of his career.  players near and around 30 are in the twilight of their career and could fall off a cliff at any given moment. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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17 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

In how many drafts? Just because they are forced to start doesn't make them pro bowl level either.  I cannot remember a single draft that the Panthers got multiple pro bowl players from one draft. If they did its been so long ago and uneventful that it wasn't worth remembering. So yeah, it's rare that the Panthers had even a decent draft beyond the 1st round. One good draft will not fix this team. I stand by that even if they miraculously find players that turn into something.

Beason, Kalil, Charles Johnson plus a Rosario Dawson.  

Morgan, Jenkins, Smitty 

Peppers, Foster, Spoon

Several with 2.  Luke and Norman, KK and Star, Williams and Anderson, Stew and Otah

Recently we have sucked.  But we used to get multiple legit starters in drafts 

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