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Cam Ward.....opinions (AKA A Thread About Shedeur Sanders)

Jmac

By Jmac,
in Carolina Panthers

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CPcavedweller Veteran

CPcavedweller

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, *FreeFua* said:

Bryce Young is basically a PR robot version of Johnny Manziel 

Johnny Manziel didn’t put in the work. 
 

I’d rather have Cam Ward or Sanders to Bryce but that would reset the development clock. I think Sanders could come in and be a Day 1 starter based on his experience and what I’ve seen. Ward could be good eventually but I’d like to see him make more throws on time from the pocket. As QB’s become more athletic, they won’t be required to hang out in the pocket and make quick reads on timing routes. 
 

That’s also why I sort of would like Nussmieir from LSU. He reads defenses pre and post snap, makes throws on time and with accuracy. I think he will be a Top 15 pick but in reality he should probably be Top 5. He’s going to be a good one. 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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33 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Here is the Levis thread.  I havent read through it

 

I found the other betting odds threads and it appears stroud was the leader going into april and then bets were off as bryce was the fav a week before draft.

 

When I get back this afternoon I will post those, have to run now.  I suspect we are going to see that it was stroud all along until the s2 poo dropped

There are literally people in that thread saying exactly what I said about Vegas just trying to get your money… Oh and there is this…

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*FreeFua* Grand Master

*FreeFua*

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Just now, CPcavedweller said:

Johnny Manziel didn’t put in the work. 
 

I’d rather have Cam Ward or Sanders to Bryce but that would reset the development clock. I think Sanders could come in and be a Day 1 starter based on his experience and what I’ve seen. Ward could be good eventually but I’d like to see him make more throws on time from the pocket. As QB’s become more athletic, they won’t be required to hang out in the pocket and make quick reads on timing routes. 
 

That’s also why I sort of would like Nussmieir from LSU. He reads defenses pre and post snap, makes throws on time and with accuracy. I think he will be a Top 15 pick but in reality he should probably be Top 5. He’s going to be a good one. 

I don’t think Bryce puts in any work either to be honest. I think once they move on from him you’ll start to hear some of that stuff come out. Bryce didn’t spend any time in the gym this offseason among other things 

I’m a big Nuss fan. I could see him going ahead of Ewers. I could also see him going back to school since he hasn’t played a ton. It’ll all depend on whether he plays himself into the top 15 range I think 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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4 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Johnny Manziel didn’t put in the work. 
 

I’d rather have Cam Ward or Sanders to Bryce but that would reset the development clock. I think Sanders could come in and be a Day 1 starter based on his experience and what I’ve seen. Ward could be good eventually but I’d like to see him make more throws on time from the pocket. As QB’s become more athletic, they won’t be required to hang out in the pocket and make quick reads on timing routes. 
 

That’s also why I sort of would like Nussmieir from LSU. He reads defenses pre and post snap, makes throws on time and with accuracy. I think he will be a Top 15 pick but in reality he should probably be Top 5. He’s going to be a good one. 

The LSU offense appears the translate decently well to the NFL. Burrow (actually I think he played under a different HC) and Daniels (so far) picked up the NFL pretty quickly…

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PNW_PantherMan Grand Master

PNW_PantherMan

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The amount of time Ward has in the pocket is crazy and he's back there playing hero ball.  I don't think that translates well to the NFL at all.  The whole routine of getting rid of the ball at any cost while being sacked is a terrible habit.  And over the first few weeks of the season, he's missed a few reads that had me shaking my head.

There's still a lot of football to be played, but I wouldn't take him higher than the back half of the 1st at this point.

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Jay Roosevelt Grand Master

Jay Roosevelt

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42 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The amount of time Ward has in the pocket is crazy and he's back there playing hero ball.  I don't think that translates well to the NFL at all.  The whole routine of getting rid of the ball at any cost while being sacked is a terrible habit.  And over the first few weeks of the season, he's missed a few reads that had me shaking my head.

There's still a lot of football to be played, but I wouldn't take him higher than the back half of the 1st at this point.

Go watch some of his Washington State stuff; he did not have that kind of time there and was still balling.

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Bear Hands Grand Master

Bear Hands

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32 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The amount of time Ward has in the pocket is crazy and he's back there playing hero ball.  I don't think that translates well to the NFL at all.  The whole routine of getting rid of the ball at any cost while being sacked is a terrible habit.  And over the first few weeks of the season, he's missed a few reads that had me shaking my head.

There's still a lot of football to be played, but I wouldn't take him higher than the back half of the 1st at this point.

I'm going to try and put an unbiased lens here and give an honest assessment.  

Not a guy who necessarily wants Ward in the 1st but I like what I've seen developmentally if you look at where he was at Incarnate.   I'll be honest and admit he's as much as a developmental guy as a 1st round prospect.  That's just the reality.  But the development he's already made alludes to a ceiling that will be appealing for many.  

When people thought he would possibly declare last season, it was rumored (Via Lance Z, Brugler, Sando, and a few others) that scouts viewed him as a 3rd-4th rounder.  The accuracy and decision making were the top digs and it makes sense why he went back and transferred. 

From my vantage point:

  • He has the baseline arm talent you want.  Highly disagree with the noodle arm digs.  If you'd rank him vs NFL starters, he's probably around #15-20 arm strength wise.  He's NFL average, college above-average.  Not the best, but he'll make the throws and maintains velocity on most throws.
  • Timing and placement has notably improved over time.
  • He gets sloppy trying to play hero ball. 
  • He's overall getting a bit too comfortable doing things he won't have time for in the NFL.  And it's making his mechanics a bit messy..  
  • Side arm style aside, his release is quick.  
  • He calls protections and has been in pro-style offenses.  Translatable experience, should have a solid acclimation period into playbooks.  
  • He is not a guy that lives in the short game, but shows he can operate the quick game no problem - intermediate throws are a big part of his game and he goes through progressions quickly with those, which you don't see much in college.
  • And I prefer the types who lean more on the push the ball downfield vs. conservative/INT-averse style play.  They can clean up the decision making through NFL coaching.  

Overall, I like him, he could bring some unwanted chaos in the pocket.  After what we've experienced, it would be nice to find a guy that's more of a dude that checks the fundamental boxes of a pocket passer, but he's an interesting prospect.  It's too early for me to jump on or off the train, still looking at the train.    

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*FreeFua* Grand Master

*FreeFua*

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1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The amount of time Ward has in the pocket is crazy and he's back there playing hero ball.  I don't think that translates well to the NFL at all.  The whole routine of getting rid of the ball at any cost while being sacked is a terrible habit.  And over the first few weeks of the season, he's missed a few reads that had me shaking my head.

There's still a lot of football to be played, but I wouldn't take him higher than the back half of the 1st at this point.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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53 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

IMG_1326.thumb.jpeg.a590b8b3a4c88b13099710e4f26c9850.jpeg

Check out Sanders TTT.  2.93

his stans ignore the OL isn’t getting smoked every play…..they do sometimes but he often is holding the ball and doing the hero ball game taking sacks and looking of the big passes. 

Ward and Sanders both worry me in terms of the clock and style needed for the NFL

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*FreeFua* Grand Master

*FreeFua*

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10 minutes ago, CRA said:

Check out Sanders TTT.  2.93

his stans ignore the OL isn’t getting smoked every play…..they do sometimes but he often is holding the ball and doing the hero ball game taking sacks and looking of the big passes. 

Ward and Sanders both worry me in terms of the clock and style needed for the NFL

Yeah but at least Ward’s pressure to sack rate only 7%
 

I said somewhere else Sanders percentage was probably pretty high which it is at 24%

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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26 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Yeah but at least Ward’s pressure to sack rate only 7%
 

I said somewhere else Sanders percentage was probably pretty high which it is at 24%

Yeah, that number represents him almost comically holding the ball sometimes….ball should be out and he is back there like a video game.  Sanders sack numbers frankly should be higher.  He has been back their 5-8 seconds on occasion just being silly….and then makes the play.  Lot of those really could  be more sacks.  

think he should of gone pro to get away from what his dad is doing.  I think this season helps his draft stock but increases his bust odds via more bad development/habits.  Dude is talented but it’s just hard to see how he can transform his mindset of how to play the position.  He plays like he has Lamar  Jackson tools in his back pocket….and maybe you can survive in the Big12 pretending that 

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strato Grand Master

strato

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3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Luke just said he is a firm believer that a majority of the NFL would have taken Bryce at 1 as well. He has been a scout. Look they got it wrong and it’s far from the first time this has happened. I don’t know why it’s so mind boggling? 

It's so mind boggling because he is so unsuited. Physically overmatched. That's all. 

I need to see Luke saying whatever that was he said. 

 

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