Serious question: Jameis Winston or Bryce Young straight-up?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I didn’t convey the point I was trying to make very well. 

I’m trying to get at a player’s makeup… it goes beyond win/loss records although record and player makeup are certainly intertwined. There have been players I consider champions on loser franchises. Case in point: Barry Sanders. 

If Barry ever had the chance to go to a Super Bowl, Barry Sanders would be hoisting a Lombardi at the end of a game. Barry was just geared that way. Barry was a champion at heart without the hardware… well, gold jacket but no trophy. 

I really want to say it better, but nothing has come easy for me today and my brain is tired. 

Yeah but why would you say Darnold or Dalton are "winners?" Darnold is anything but a winner and Dalton was a pretty good QB in his heyday but probably still a Tier 3 guy even in his prime(Tier 1: Elite, Tier 2: Almost Elite(think Ryan/Cousins/Dak/etc)). 

I don't think Winston is a classic winner. He's a classic TO prone gunslinger. A lot of fun and a lot of frustration.

Bryce....eh....TBD. Definitely hasn't displayed much in the way of being a winner. I'd say looks like he could eventually ascend to elite game manager, which is absolutely fine. 

Bryce has the rest of the year to show if he warrants further time as a Panthers starter or if it's time to pivot in another direction. Winston has shown he can certainly be a guy that can come off the bench in a backup role and win some games. That's really all you can expect for a player like that.

[Aussie Tank]

42 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but why would you say Darnold or Dalton are "winners?" Darnold is anything but a winner and Dalton was a pretty good QB in his heyday but probably still a Tier 3 guy even in his prime(Tier 1: Elite, Tier 2: Almost Elite(think Ryan/Cousins/Dak/etc)). 

I don't think Winston is a classic winner. He's a classic TO prone gunslinger. A lot of fun and a lot of frustration.

Bryce....eh....TBD. Definitely hasn't displayed much in the way of being a winner. I'd say looks like he could eventually ascend to elite game manager, which is absolutely fine. 

Bryce has the rest of the year to show if he warrants further time as a Panthers starter or if it's time to pivot in another direction. Winston has shown he can certainly be a guy that can come off the bench in a backup role and win some games. That's really all you can expect for a player like that.

Elite game manager is what we want. Tom Brady was an elite game manager with a great defense. And then they went and got him Moss and Gronk that took him to juggernaut level 

[pamlicopanther]

On 12/2/2024 at 11:20 PM, mav1234 said:

I don't know how you can compare a veteran like that to Bryce, a player coming off the best stretch of games in his career.

Winston is super entertaining to watch when he's on a different team, because if he isn't throwing touchdowns, he's throwing picks.

Pick 6s

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Aussie Tank said:

Elite game manager is what we want. Tom Brady was an elite game manager with a great defense. And then they went and got him Moss and Gronk that took him to juggernaut level 

Brady was considerably more than a game manager.

[Aussie Tank]

50 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Brady was considerably more than a game manager.

Watch Cams take on game managers and game changers I feel the same way. Being an elite game manager/distributer isn't the diss you think it is 

[XClown1986]

fug James Winston. Seriously? Dude is mental.

[MechaZain]

Game manager implies that the game is happening around the QB and his role is to just keep it together for the win. If Brady's one the term is meaningless. 

[Gapanthersfan]

15 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but why would you say Darnold or Dalton are "winners?" Darnold is anything but a winner and Dalton was a pretty good QB in his heyday but probably still a Tier 3 guy even in his prime(Tier 1: Elite, Tier 2: Almost Elite(think Ryan/Cousins/Dak/etc)). 

I don't think Winston is a classic winner. He's a classic TO prone gunslinger. A lot of fun and a lot of frustration.

Bryce....eh....TBD. Definitely hasn't displayed much in the way of being a winner. I'd say looks like he could eventually ascend to elite game manager, which is absolutely fine. 

Bryce has the rest of the year to show if he warrants further time as a Panthers starter or if it's time to pivot in another direction. Winston has shown he can certainly be a guy that can come off the bench in a backup role and win some games. That's really all you can expect for a player like that.

I look at as a winner as being a guy you *can win with… but you pray you get the good version that day. I contest that if Darnold had started in a better place that he would have an overall slightly better than .500 winning percentage. This can be said for many QBs that have come and gone. You *can win more than you lose, but that’s their ceiling. Darnold is a polarizing guy, I know. But I’m in his camp. 

Champion QBs are guys who may make a bad throw here and there, but they don’t give a game away. You can count on one hand the number of *bad games they’ve had in the past 5 years.

 teams who are fortunate enough to find one can build dynasties… instead of praying for consecutive winning seasons. 

[Ricky Prickles]

13 hours ago, XClown1986 said:

fug James Winston. Seriously? Dude is mental.

Well everyone knows that. Hell, im willing to bet his own momma would admit he is a headcase. Dude shoved a few pounds of crab legs down his drawers and under his ball sack which had to be colder than all hell not to mention dangerous to the bait and tackle.

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 12/3/2024 at 8:46 AM, HardcoreHokie said:

I want Bryce and Jameis (or similar, Hendon Hooker, Dalton, rookie, etc) competing in preseason for the starting gig.  

Nothing given, gotta earn it for Bryce.  He needs competition, he’s never really had that in his young life.  

Compete, get benched, get back up, be better.

I'll stick with Bryce. Winston seems to go blind sometimes. He throws pics that a pee wee leaguer could pick off. Sometimes he just doesn't see the defender. 

[kungfoodude]

20 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

Watch Cams take on game managers and game changers I feel the same way. Being an elite game manager/distributer isn't the diss you think it is 

Cam and I don't agree on what "game manager" means.

[Shocker]

23 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

Elite game manager is what we want. Tom Brady was an elite game manager with a great defense. And then they went and got him Moss and Gronk that took him to juggernaut level 

Numbers wise Brady is the goat.  Game manager?

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I look at as a winner as being a guy you *can win with… but you pray you get the good version that day. I contest that if Darnold had started in a better place that he would have an overall slightly better than .500 winning percentage. This can be said for many QBs that have come and gone. You *can win more than you lose, but that’s their ceiling. Darnold is a polarizing guy, I know. But I’m in his camp. 

Champion QBs are guys who may make a bad throw here and there, but they don’t give a game away. You can count on one hand the number of *bad games they’ve had in the past 5 years.

 teams who are fortunate enough to find one can build dynasties… instead of praying for consecutive winning seasons. 

Darnold is considerably worse than Brock Purdy and basically in a similar scenario. He's a regular dude driving a Ferrari, not Lewis Hamilton driving the fug out of a Toyota Camry.

Good example is that Darnold is at 1.17 TO/GM this year in MN. His Panthers career TO/GM average was 1.22.

He is the same guy(backup tier) as he has always been, just on a team that is elite with elite coaching.

 

[Aussie Tank]

43 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Numbers wise Brady is the goat.  Game manager?

Your talking his whole career at the start he was an elite game manager with a great defense. He took that next step when Moss than Gronk came into the fold