Trevin Wallace - PFF Breakout Nominee

[MHS831]

21 hours ago, rayzor said:

Wallace has been getting some serious mentoring from TD and a bit from Kuechly as well. Both have been sitting down with him looking at tape. 

Must be sweet to play a position when you have former players at the position--studs---there to help you along.  Morgan, Luke, TD--wow.

[Khyber53]

54 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just saying, the NFL has figured out that you can get by with serviceable off ball LBs behind good DLs. There's always going to be a market for elite guys at every potion but there are certain positions (off ball LB, safety, IOL, RB) where if you don't have an elite guy, the dropoff in terms sof impact on overall unit performance between good and average isn't that big so don't pay for good when average is the far better bargain.

See, I have a different view of it. I think that just the opposite is very true, and often proven on our very own team. 

Look at the impact that CMC had when he was here. 

Look at how bring in two top rate IOL to play guard last season made a huge difference in finally getting a stable front for Bryce to live behind. It took a while for it to bear fruit, but those last games were just relevatory.

And off ball linebackers like Luke Kuechly, not just running a defense but dictating the game when he's on the field, truly remarkable what a difference that makes. Personally, he had as much or maybe even more to do with that Super Bowl appearance as Cam did. 

What I see in the NFL is teams trying hard to cover up for a lack of good linebackers by stacking the D-line. But it gives them a crust defense, one that is hard and crunchy on the outside but a feast within. Linebackers shouldn't just rule the middle of the field, but should be directing traffic and working as enforcers. 

But hey, whatever. "Devalued" positions often come back to bite you in the ass when they are neglected. Ask anyone who has had to clean up the mess left behind by a former college coach who took over a pro team and brought their college recruiting mindset in. Yanno, like Matt Rhule did. 

 

[NAS]

30 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

See, I have a different view of it. I think that just the opposite is very true, and often proven on our very own team. 

Look at the impact that CMC had when he was here. 

Look at how bring in two top rate IOL to play guard last season made a huge difference in finally getting a stable front for Bryce to live behind. It took a while for it to bear fruit, but those last games were just relevatory.

And off ball linebackers like Luke Kuechly, not just running a defense but dictating the game when he's on the field, truly remarkable what a difference that makes. Personally, he had as much or maybe even more to do with that Super Bowl appearance as Cam did. 

What I see in the NFL is teams trying hard to cover up for a lack of good linebackers by stacking the D-line. But it gives them a crust defense, one that is hard and crunchy on the outside but a feast within. Linebackers shouldn't just rule the middle of the field, but should be directing traffic and working as enforcers. 

But hey, whatever. "Devalued" positions often come back to bite you in the ass when they are neglected. Ask anyone who has had to clean up the mess left behind by a former college coach who took over a pro team and brought their college recruiting mindset in. Yanno, like Matt Rhule did. 

 

Right before Kuechly retired, we had some of the worst D line play that year.  We were ranked 29th against the run in 2019.   I remember even Kuechly struggled to get off the blocks at times because the linemen were on second level so quickly due to our porous line made up of Kyle Love, Vernon Butler and a washed up Gerald McCoy.   

Edited 22 hours ago by NAS

[LinvilleGorge]

57 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

See, I have a different view of it. I think that just the opposite is very true, and often proven on our very own team. 

Look at the impact that CMC had when he was here. 

Look at how bring in two top rate IOL to play guard last season made a huge difference in finally getting a stable front for Bryce to live behind. It took a while for it to bear fruit, but those last games were just relevatory.

And off ball linebackers like Luke Kuechly, not just running a defense but dictating the game when he's on the field, truly remarkable what a difference that makes. Personally, he had as much or maybe even more to do with that Super Bowl appearance as Cam did. 

What I see in the NFL is teams trying hard to cover up for a lack of good linebackers by stacking the D-line. But it gives them a crust defense, one that is hard and crunchy on the outside but a feast within. Linebackers shouldn't just rule the middle of the field, but should be directing traffic and working as enforcers. 

But hey, whatever. "Devalued" positions often come back to bite you in the ass when they are neglected. Ask anyone who has had to clean up the mess left behind by a former college coach who took over a pro team and brought their college recruiting mindset in. Yanno, like Matt Rhule did. 

 

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that truly elite players will always have a market because they're elite difference makers and that at the "devalued positions" the NFL has discovered that those are spots where unless you have an elite talent there you have an opportunity to get similar results out of run of the mill talent for run of the mill money compared to good talent for good money. The drop off in overall unit performance isn't dramatic dropping down from "good" to "JAG" and it saves money to invest in the premium positions. It's about skill sets and what is hardest to find, simple supply and demand. There's just more serviceable LBs and RBs and safeties out there than their are CBs and pass rushers and QBs.

And honestly, a big part of our historic lack of consistent success has been investing too many premium draft and cap resources into those devalued positions. Yeah, we've had a lot of great off the ball LBs and RBs on our way to be a franchise with an overall losing record. Pointing to our success at those positions is proving my point because I just point to our W-L record and overall lack of historical quality at premium positions like QB, WR, CB, etc. We've sucked in large part because we've valued the wrong position groups. In a vacuum it doesn't matter. But in actuality every high pick or big chunk of cap you spend on an off the ball LB or RB or IOL is a high pick or big chunk of cap you couldn't spend on a QB or CB or WR or OT.

[Basbear]

4 hours ago, NAS said:

Right before Kuechly retired, we had some of the worst D line play that year.  We were ranked 29th against the run in 2019.   I remember even Kuechly struggled to get off the blocks at times because the linemen were on second level so quickly due to our porous line made up of Kyle Love, Vernon Butler and a washed up Gerald McCoy.   

I know Cam gets lots of " why didn't you deliver back-2-back winning seasons ", Luke deserves the same HEAT. 

only RR and his crew of clown coaches(minus DL wash and DC mcderp) could be gifted those rosters and not break the curse...

[kungfoodude]

12 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

IMO Evero will have no excuses for a bad defense. I believe we have depth at most of our defensive positions. 

Eh.....if you look at the roster itself it still as the bones of a bottom 10 defense. A lot has to break the right way for that not to be the case. 

But, the measuring stick needs to be OBVIOUS improvement and OBVIOUS moves in the right direction. 

If that does not happen, Evero has to go.

[mrcompletely11]

12 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

IMO Evero will have no excuses for a bad defense. I believe we have depth at most of our defensive positions. 

Dude, I am on the fire EE train, poo man I am the conductor, but we have 2 dudes on this defense that probably would start for other teams and one is coming off a semi serious knee injury.  This defense has absolutely no talent on it and absolutely no depth.  I suspect EE is fired on general principle next off season because once again we are a couple of injuries away from mimicking the 2024 defense.   The free agent signings were pretty meh and the edges we drafted are going to be rookies.  I suspect we will be in a lot of shoot outs this year provided bryce keeps getting better

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Dude, I am on the fire EE train, poo man I am the conductor, but we have 2 dudes on this defense that probably would start for other teams and one is coming off a semi serious knee injury.  This defense has absolutely no talent on it and absolutely no depth.  I suspect EE is fired on general principle next off season because once again we are a couple of injuries away from mimicking the 2024 defense.   The free agent signings were pretty meh and the edges we drafted are going to be rookies.  I suspect we will be in a lot of shoot outs this year provided bryce keeps getting better

A lot is being based off all our FA moves and all our draft moves being home runs. Last season, that was FAR from the case on both counts.

Not unusual. Hopium is in peak supply after the offseason and pre-TC.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 hours ago, Basbear said:

I know Cam gets lots of " why didn't you deliver back-2-back winning seasons ", Luke deserves the same HEAT. 

only RR and his crew of clown coaches(minus DL wash and DC mcderp) could be gifted those rosters and not break the curse...

No Luke doesn't and no Cam doesn't. We didn't have back to back winning seasons because we were trash at OT, we were trash at WR, we were trash in the secondary other than Josh Norman. Guys like Cam, and Luke, and TD, and Olsen, and Josh Norman were band aiding together and overall trash roster. We just had enough really good guys to make it somewhat work as long as all the key guys remained healthy and the coaching staff wasn't helping. They were getting dragged along too.

[Khyber53]

18 hours ago, NAS said:

Right before Kuechly retired, we had some of the worst D line play that year.  We were ranked 29th against the run in 2019.   I remember even Kuechly struggled to get off the blocks at times because the linemen were on second level so quickly due to our porous line made up of Kyle Love, Vernon Butler and a washed up Gerald McCoy.   

Gerald "Let me jump on the pile for a stat boost" McCoy.

[Khyber53]

17 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that truly elite players will always have a market because they're elite difference makers and that at the "devalued positions" the NFL has discovered that those are spots where unless you have an elite talent there you have an opportunity to get similar results out of run of the mill talent for run of the mill money compared to good talent for good money. The drop off in overall unit performance isn't dramatic dropping down from "good" to "JAG" and it saves money to invest in the premium positions. It's about skill sets and what is hardest to find, simple supply and demand. There's just more serviceable LBs and RBs and safeties out there than their are CBs and pass rushers and QBs.

And honestly, a big part of our historic lack of consistent success has been investing too many premium draft and cap resources into those devalued positions. Yeah, we've had a lot of great off the ball LBs and RBs on our way to be a franchise with an overall losing record. Pointing to our success at those positions is proving my point because I just point to our W-L record and overall lack of historical quality at premium positions like QB, WR, CB, etc. We've sucked in large part because we've valued the wrong position groups. In a vacuum it doesn't matter. But in actuality every high pick or big chunk of cap you spend on an off the ball LB or RB or IOL is a high pick or big chunk of cap you couldn't spend on a QB or CB or WR or OT.

You make some very good points, I concede.

[Icege]

I'm impressed with the way Tillis is structuring the books.

The team is currently spending more on non-premium positions like iOL and S, but that’s because they’ve got rookie deals locked in at several key premium spots:

• QB: Bryce Young
• LT: Ikem Ekwonu
• EDGE: Nic Scourton, Princely Umanmielen
• WR: Tetairoa McMillan, Xavier Legette, Jalen Coker

The only veterans at those premium positions on second contracts are Taylor Moton, Adam Thielen, and the recently extended Jaycee Horn. Given that setup, it makes sense to allocate bigger dollars toward non-premium roles - especially if those pieces support the development and success of the younger core. Investing in iOL helps our young QB. Strengthening the DL helps both of our young EDGE guys and our high-paid CB.

I can see the vision. Fingers crossed that it works!

Edited 2 hours ago by Icege

[Navy_football]

14 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Dude, I am on the fire EE train, poo man I am the conductor, but we have 2 dudes on this defense that probably would start for other teams and one is coming off a semi serious knee injury.  This defense has absolutely no talent on it and absolutely no depth.  I suspect EE is fired on general principle next off season because once again we are a couple of injuries away from mimicking the 2024 defense.   The free agent signings were pretty meh and the edges we drafted are going to be rookies.  I suspect we will be in a lot of shoot outs this year provided bryce keeps getting better

Derrick Brown, Jaycee Horn, Trevon Moehrig and maybe Josey Jewell could all start on most teams in the NFL. Then there are proven starters from other orgs like Bobby Brown and Ashawn Robinson. This defense isn't that lacking in talent now. All they'd need is another safety and a pass rusher to step up and it's pretty solid overall. Barring injuries, EE has no excuses. They should be a middle-of-the-pack D. 

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

I'm impressed with the way Tillis is structuring the books.

The team is currently spending more on non-premium positions like iOL and S, but that’s because they’ve got rookie deals locked in at several key premium spots:

• QB: Bryce Young
• LT: Ikem Ekwonu
• EDGE: Nic Scourton, Princely Umanmielen
• WR: Tetairoa McMillan, Xavier Legette, Jalen Coker

The only veterans at those premium positions on second contracts are Taylor Moton, Adam Thielen, and the recently extended Jaycee Horn. Given that setup, it makes sense to allocate bigger dollars toward non-premium roles - especially if those pieces support the development and success of the younger core. Investing in iOL helps our young QB. Strengthening the DL helps both of our young EDGE guys and our high-paid CB.

I can see the vision. Fingers crossed that it works!

I see it a bit differently considering there is only 20M in cap space. Given how many of the premium positions are on rookie contracts their cap should not be nearly maxed out. Tillis still has a lot of work to do before these rookies will need a second contract.