Josina Anderson: Panthers NOT trading Adam Thielen

[CRA]

27 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Doesn’t matter how it was billed. Bryce was billed as the most NFL and that turned out to be false too. Chark can’t find a team, Mingo did nothing with the Cowboys, Hurst is pretty much retired, and our OGs allowed instant pressure. So you have a rookie QB with multiple voices in his head trying to run a NFL offense with no protection and AT as the only weapon. Would Stroud have played better? Probably because Stroud is the better QB, but he still would have struggled. Stroud came down a little this past year as his OL had some injuries and his weapons got hurt. You can look at Stroud vs the Ravens to see how he operates with instant pressure. No QB is thriving in that environment and I’m a pretty big Stroud Stan. 

Maybe it doesn’t matter how it is billed.

But I know there are about a billion reasons named for why Bryce Young has stunk. The simplistic answer is probably the right one.  It’s Bryce.  A unicorn NFL QB in terms of the tools he works with.  Frank Reich wasn’t Rhule.   It was that bad because of Bryce. 

whatever scenario Bryce is in, I just think his tools aren’t strong enough and brings things down.   Where you want the opposite effect to occur.  Was last year a little  better than the first year? Most expensive OL in the NFL.   

the cute random scrambles don’t make up for the lack of arm at this level.   He can’t scare a D if he isn’t set…arm can’t make those throws.  Even when set it’s iffy if he can actually make teams pay with certain throws.  

Just a very low ceiling QB in terms of his arm.  I think there is enough play where that’s not a hot take. 
 

[toldozer]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

Maybe it doesn’t matter how it is billed.

But I know there are about a billion reasons named for why Bryce Young has stunk. The simplistic answer is probably the right one.  It’s Bryce.  A unicorn NFL QB in terms of the tools he works with.  Frank Reich wasn’t Rhule.   It was that bad because of Bryce. 

whatever scenario Bryce is in, I just think his tools aren’t strong enough and brings things down.   Where you want the opposite effect to occur.  What was last year a little  better than the first year? Most expensive OL in the NFL.   

the cute random scrambles don’t make up for the lack of arm at this level.   He can’t scare a D if he isn’t set…arm can’t make those throws.  Even when set it’s iffy if he can actually make teams pay with certain throws.  

Just a very low ceiling QB in terms of his arm.  I think there is enough play where that’s not a hot take. 
 

He's a point guard my guy, don't worry about it.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Maybe it doesn’t matter how it is billed.

But I know there are about a billion reasons named for why Bryce Young has stunk. The simplistic answer is probably the right one.  It’s Bryce.  A unicorn NFL QB in terms of the tools he works with. 

whatever scenario Bryce is in, I just think his tools aren’t strong enough and brings things down.   Where you want the opposite effect to occur. 

the cute random scrambles don’t make up for the lack of arm at this level.   He can’t scare a D if he isn’t set…arm can’t make those throws.  Even when set it’s iffy if he can actually make teams pay with certain throws.  

Just a very low ceiling QB in terms of his arm.  I think there is enough play where that’s not a hot take. 
 

Yeah I’m turning this into a Bryce can’t play QB thread. Just stating that offense was a poo show two years ago. No QB is succeeding in that, much less a rookie. I feel like it’s become a common debate strategy on here to just jump down the rabbit hole of saying he is just bad in so many ways when any certain point gets countered. If that doesn’t work we can deflect to how poorly this team has been ran. In regards to the actual point we are debating, the OL was struggling, half of the skill players aren’t on a roster, Mingo has done nothing with his new team and the staff are either not coaching or on their 3rd team in 3 years, aside from McCown (I liked McCown too). Honestly about as bad as it gets. No need to try to state how good of an offense it was billed it because that has been proven false at this point. 

[frankw]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Lol. This kills me.

If Thielen is our most reliable WR, that’s a problem. We’ve spent two 1sts and found a gem of an UDFA in our last two drafts above and beyond the trading DJ Moore and multiple 1sts and 2nds for Young.

Thielen isn’t going to be part of any future we have and if we can’t survive losing him for a 4th, that says more about us needing a new QB and another 2 WRs. After our past 3 drafts, that’s better not be the case.

Either we’ve got the young WRs and QB or we don’t. Keeping Thielen at age 35 shouldn’t be a priority unless you are saying Legette, TMac and Young can’t produce without him.

 

13 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Fact is he’s 35. Is in his final year. Get something now while you can. Chances are, he’s retiring or going back to Minnesota on a 1 year deal at the end of the season anyways. 

Good to see some other folks are speaking the same language on this. It's simple common sense. But it seems like there's a disconnect due to the misplaced value the team has put on Thielen because he was the only vaguely good veteran WR willing to sign with the Panthers after we traded away DJ Moore. That time has come and gone. We have two first round WR's on the roster now.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, toldozer said:

He's a point guard my guy, don't worry about it.

Well, the whole rationale used  for the high IQ point guard is it would allow us to spend our resources elsewhere….instead it’s all our first rounders ever since to support the bad pick. 

Reality is our front office is just bad.  If you wanted Bryce Young you were going to need to do something unique and special for him.  Instead we just insert a QB with traditional tools into old NFL concepts that pair with traditional talent and our pass game is whack

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah I’m turning this into a Bryce can’t play QB thread. Just stating that offense was a poo show two years ago. No QB is succeeding in that, much less a rookie. I feel like it’s become a common debate strategy on here to just jump down the rabbit hole of saying he is just bad in so many ways when any certain point gets countered. If that doesn’t work we can deflect to how poorly this team has been ran. In regards to the actual point we are debating, the OL was struggling, half of the skill players aren’t on a roster, Mingo has done nothing with his new team and the staff are either not coaching or on their 3rd team in 3 years, aside from McCown (I liked McCown too). Honestly about as bad as it gets. No need to try to state how good of an offense it was billed it because that has been proven false at this point. 

Well, that is the repeated narrative.  We did have a tiny glimpse into if that was true or not though that year. 

the one game Bryce sat…resulted in the best offensive production on the season. 

I don’t think anyone was “succeeding”….but I do think given Young’s tools whatever potential exists, Bryce Young’s tools can’t max whatever potential does exist in any sort of traditional scheme. 

You could throw Bryce Young into the Greatest Show on Turf.  I would guess, it would just be a pretty good O.  I just don’t see how you get to a high powered O with Bryce Young without  it being some super creative O with top tier playmakers.  

That’s not me saying he can’t play.  I think he caps potential 

[PleaseCutStewart]

What are the odds we can tell the Vikings "the packers offered us a 3rd, send us a 3rd or he is going to GB" and they actually buy it...

Edited yesterday at 08:55 PM by PleaseCutStewart

[carpanfan96]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well, that is the repeated narrative.  We did have a tiny glimpse into if that was true or not though that year. 

the one game Bryce sat…resulted in the best offensive production on the season. 

I don’t think anyone was “succeeding”….but I do think given Young’s tools whatever potential exists, Bryce Young’s tools can’t max whatever potential does exist in any sort of traditional scheme. 

You could throw Bryce Young into the Greatest Show on Turf.  I would guess, it would just be a pretty good O.  I just don’t see how you get to a high powered O with Bryce Young with it being some super creative O with top tier playmakers.  

That’s not be saying he can’t play.  I think he caps potential 

You'd have to run a west coast offense, have a really good rb and slot wr. Roll BY out and put him on the edges out of play action / rpos with a lot of wrinkles to hide intentions 

[Icege]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

Maybe it doesn’t matter how it is billed.

But I know there are about a billion reasons named for why Bryce Young has stunk. The simplistic answer is probably the right one.  It’s Bryce.  A unicorn NFL QB in terms of the tools he works with.  Frank Reich wasn’t Rhule.   It was that bad because of Bryce. 

whatever scenario Bryce is in, I just think his tools aren’t strong enough and brings things down.   Where you want the opposite effect to occur.  Was last year a little  better than the first year? Most expensive OL in the NFL.   

the cute random scrambles don’t make up for the lack of arm at this level.   He can’t scare a D if he isn’t set…arm can’t make those throws.  Even when set it’s iffy if he can actually make teams pay with certain throws.  

Just a very low ceiling QB in terms of his arm.  I think there is enough play where that’s not a hot take. 
 

What is the acceptable floor for a rookie QB with 6th & 7th string starting guards, a group of weapons where the only player getting open is 33yrs old, and the coaching staff switched the offense up three times in their first year?

Edited 23 hours ago by Icege

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

Well, that is the repeated narrative.  We did have a tiny glimpse into if that was true or not though that year. 

the one game Bryce sat…resulted in the best offensive production on the season. 

I don’t think anyone was “succeeding”….but I do think given Young’s tools whatever potential exists, Bryce Young’s tools can’t max whatever potential does exist in any sort of traditional scheme. 

You could throw Bryce Young into the Greatest Show on Turf.  I would guess, it would just be a pretty good O.  I just don’t see how you get to a high powered O with Bryce Young without  it being some super creative O with top tier playmakers.  

That’s not me saying he can’t play.  I think he caps potential 

And this year Bryce looked better than this year’s Dalton with a greater sample size. So again this just tells me Reich let his vet QB air it out against a depleted Seattle secondary. It was still far from a great offensive showdown by a QB that some on here wanted it to be. Again a lot of those posters are now claiming Dalton is washed. So from a one game offensive showing to washed one season later. Let’s you know how reactionary us fans are. I’m not overly concerned either way. Obviously I’m cheering for him to play well as it is what’s best for this team. I swear some rather be right than have this happen. However if he doesn’t we just draft another one. I’m not as attached to him currently as I was Cam. Probably the Auburn fan in me. 

[csx]

This thread went to poo. CRA angry a Clemson player might get a few less targets.

[ForJimmy]

25 minutes ago, Icege said:

What is the acceptable floor for a rookie QB with 6th & 7th string starting guards, a group of weapons where the only player getting open is 33yrs old, and the coaching staff switched the offense up three times in their first year?

People seem to quickly forget how bad Baker and Darnold looked here before looking much better a year or two (for Sam) later. Easy train of thought is to simply blame the QB, but we have to keep building this roster back up if we want any QB to succeed here. 

[CRA]

25 minutes ago, Icege said:

What is the acceptable floor for a rookie QB with 6th & 7th string starting guards, a group of weapons where the only player getting open is 33yrs old, and the coaching staff switched the offense up three times in their first year?

Part of the reason no one wasn’t getting open is because of BY.  That’s generally gets omitted.  His part in the why.  

if you don’t have to respect different areas of the field and throws….you get to cheat coverage on plays and routes as a defense/defender.   Getting open gets much harder.   

and I referenced it earlier, best offensive day of that season was the one game Young didn’t play and washed up Dalton took the field 

it’s always everyone else.  Frank Reich tried all he could.  But Frank is a generic NFL HC.  And he is not a bad HC.  BY doesn’t do the basics at a high enough level because of his tools….not just lack of experience.   So if things aren’t great, it will go bad with BY.   And if the table ever gets set for REALLY good….you likely won’t see that either with BY. 

only Bryce is going to change my opinion at this stage.  Not his believers 

[jb2288]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

People seem to quickly forget how bad Baker and Darnold looked here before looking much better a year or two (for Sam) later. Easy train of thought is to simply blame the QB, but we have to keep building this roster back up if we want any QB to succeed here. 

Just let the rants go. Their minds were made up the night we drafted Bryce and they will do anything to be right. The fact we were a QB graveyard for guys who went on to be pro bowlers elsewhere much be a coincidence. Totally must just be Bryce.