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You Done with Morgan Yet?

RumHam

By RumHam,
in Carolina Panthers

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I'm very much more critical of Dave Canales. He has to develop the talent that he is given. He also is responsible for his staff and personnel decision is on game days. I'm glad that he saw fit to get JT more involved yesterday. He gets zero credit for Hunter Renfrow, as should've never fired him in the first place, only to rehire him due to injury. 

Canales is a young guy learning the ropes. Give him time. He is saddled with arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL. I have yet to see a game in the past couple of seasons where I went into it thinking  "We've got the best QB on the field" or "Our guy can hold his own against any QB in the NFL".

We are out-manned/over-matched at the QB spot in every game we play. You can't build a competitive team in today's NFL like that.

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

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Posted
3 minutes ago, hepcat said:

It was the return for the value of the player. If someone came and offered me $20k over the blue book value of my car, even though I don't have another vehicle at the moment, it's worth the short term pain to realize that long term gain. It was just dumb to reject such a great value for a single player.

In hindsight you are right because we didn't even resign Burns and let him go for less.

Let me ask you this. Would you take the same deal for Derrick Brown? I would in a heartbeat. I'd probably do for just one 1st round pick. 

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Bear Hands Grand Master

Bear Hands

Posted
Posted

I liked this past draft class.  I did not like 2024s when it went down, still don't.  

The FA moves have been alright both seasons, although I think it's been a problem not trying to go for an impact defender and instead getting these younger patchwork guys with potential.    

One of the bigger problems is that he was in the Fitterer office so there's an inherent level of mistrust in evaluating.  But in the same breathe, bringing in Tillis has been good and this past year seemed very focused and intentional.   

I'd be willing to give this current regime another season but I would ask he take a good hard look at the scouting team and find someone to bring in with a track record on skill position talent.   

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

 I'd be willing to give this current regime another season but I would ask he take a good hard look at the scouting team and find someone to bring in with a track record on skill position talent.   

...and LB, and D-line, Safety, and QB 😆

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RumHam Veteran

RumHam

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35 minutes ago, Tbe said:

I was very skeptical of Dan when he was promoted, and all my fears are coming true.

I suspect Dan was hired because:

1) Good candidates declined interviews.

2) He was the only candidate who was excited about Bryce and doing everything possible to prove he was a good pick.

Yeah this is it and the only reason he was excited is because he is most likely a Yes man. Dan has done so much for this organization and was a fan favorite, there's also that.

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SetfreexX Mentor

SetfreexX

Posted
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I think being out on Dan is shortsighted; here are the two immediate reasons that stick out to me.

1) Inherited a grossly undersized QB with no real tangible physical traits that offset his size that the prior offensive staff did not want, who appears to be an all-time bust. Bryce isn't ''elite'' in any physical category, athleticism, arm strength, nothing, even his ''superpower'' aka his processing, does not show up. Not to mention that he is in his 3rd year and is still built like an HS senior.

2) The roster was terrible, the fact that we have halfway established some depth on both sides of the ball is commendable considering we are at the top of his 2nd year at the helm; we have not seen bad contracts handed out, and we've seen relatively smart trades. Even the Thielen one, because he's 35 and we got 4th round value for a guy who was not part of the long-term plans, did we miss him these past two games...sure. However, we were not a playoff team with him anyway.

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PadresPanthersFan Proficient

PadresPanthersFan

Posted
Posted

I'm trying to be as pragmatic and as un reactionary as possible. And once again multiple things can be true 

His draft last year was disastrously terrible. X looks like an absolute bust. Brooks hasn't played. Wallace looks like a miss. But demani needs more pt, cws is solid and Coker has shown promise

This draft cannot be judged after 2 games esp with a dc who doesn't want to play them. But tmac looks legit. Princely has promise. The rest is a ? 

Has he made mistakes? Undoubtedly.  Is the roster better than it was 2 years ago? I'd say yes. I'd say our biggest problems are still the ones we had 2 years ago - Bryce and evero. 

And as I've said before, at least he hasn't traded any future picks. Yet. 

So IMHO Morgan is a mixed bag but not a total bust. Yet.

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45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

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Posted

Yes, I think his ideology is still too intertwined with Fitterer's.  Unless he can break away from that and become his own man, then it's time to go.   I get having a mentor, but you have to make you're own legacy and stop mimicing your predecessor. 

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Panthering Mentor

Panthering

Posted
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As much flak as he's rightfully taking for his 2024 draft, I am alright with Dan Morgan right now. He's inherited a bad QB and a bad NFL roster. That's a tough predicament, thought his 2024 FA class was great, 2025 draft too early to call (but props for taking the BPA of T-Mac), and 2025 FA too early to call. 

There isn't a magic wand here, this is a sad-sack organization with major holes in the roster, I like having someone here who has actually experienced some success within the franchise. He just has to keep nailing his draft picks in the first two rounds and likely find another option at QB.

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

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2 minutes ago, PadresPanthersFan said:

His draft last year was disastrously terrible. X looks like an absolute bust. Brooks hasn't played. Wallace looks like a miss. But demani needs more pt, cws is solid and Coker has shown promise

This draft cannot be judged after 2 games esp with a dc who doesn't want to play them. But tmac looks legit. Princely has promise. The rest is a ? 

Has he made mistakes? Undoubtedly.  Is the roster better than it was 2 years ago? I'd say yes. I'd say our biggest problems are still the ones we had 2 years ago - Bryce and evero. 

 

I wouldn't be upset if Evero left, but like Canales he get's too much blame IMHO. Only 2 of our 11 starters have to be accounted for on every play (Brown and Horn). The other 9 guys probably wouldn't start on a contending team. We traded away our best pass rusher at the start of 2024 and only this year did we draft 2 guys who could "possibly" to replace him.

Our secondary picked off 9 passes in 2024. Kirby Joseph had the same total as a Safety in Detroit.

We just don't have a lot of talent to work with in Carolina. That's why I think we should be playing anyone form the 24-25 drafts as much as possible to see what we have.

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hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

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26 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

In hindsight you are right because we didn't even resign Burns and let him go for less.

Let me ask you this. Would you take the same deal for Derrick Brown? I would in a heartbeat. I'd probably do for just one 1st round pick. 

Not sure about 1 first round pick, but 2? Absolutely. 

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

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1 hour ago, hepcat said:

Never made sense to me either. Dan Morgan was in the room when they refused to trade Brian Burns for a QB level haul of picks. Everyone should have been fired into the sun the moment that trade was rejected. 

They should have locked the doors and started pumping Zyklon B into the room at that point. 

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When you look at 1st rd QB success, eliminate these rare ones from your samples because they are trained to be championship QBs. 100% of them have taken their team to a championship. Also, the Bill Walsh tree knows the formula for building an offense and finding a QB QUICKLY. The question is why haven't others figured it out & continue to waste draft capital on QBs? Based on my QB evaluation system, here's the QBs I had slotted for the Panthers over the past 10 drafts. Patrick Mahomes, Brad Kaaya, Cooper Rush, Lamar Jackson, Brett Rypien, Tyler Huntley, Jalen Hurts, Shane Buechele, Desmond Ridder, Brock Purdy, Aqeel Glass, Jack Coan, Aidan O'Connell, Tanner McKee, Spencer Rattler, Devin Leary, Sam Hartman, Quinn Ewers. The ones in bold were the ones that rated the highest for pro championship qualities (probable franchise QBs). Obviously,  we didn't need them all, but it's about flow of pro championship qualities shown in college and not the most physically gifted. Also, there are a few QBs every decade who have the qualities, but never get a chance. If you're talent evaluation/QB system is good enough, you can go get 2 to 3 of them tomorrow to show what they can do when their name is called. I expect 1 of every 6 QBs to be worthy of being a franchise QB. There's strict rules to the depth chart qualifications, rotation, minimum KPIs and cuts/trades for me. Panthers have had Collins, Beuerlein, Weinke, Delhomme, Clausen, Newton, Bridgewater, Darnold, and Young. If you include Lewis, Peete, Allen and Mayfield, the Panthers have had 3 of 13 championship level franchise QBs. 1 of 5 (1 of 6 if you don't count Collins). It's the same for every franchise. The difference is a certain coaching tree knows how to move them through quicker than all the others while building defense with the most valuable draft picks. For Walsh, Montana(3rd rd) was his 3rd QB and Young(trade) was his 12th (9 yrs). He had a process allowing him to move through them rapidly. 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