Bryce Young now leads the NFL in game-winning drives since his debut

[PleaseCutStewart]

9 hours ago, TN05 said:

Additionally, this year alone Bryce is tied for game-winning drives with Baker Mayfield (4), ranking behind only Bo Nix and Caleb Williams with 5 each.

This was all part of Bryce's master plan. Play like complete ass for three and a half quarters (most of his games), then play one good drive at the end to win it for us.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Many have argued this.  I say change the definition of GWDs so it's harder to earn.  My point is that he gets credit for the GWD just like every other QB in the league.  Based on the matrix he has 4. 

Stats are stats.  You can manipulate stats to prove just about anything.  Doesn't mean it's accurate.

 

[Joe Bear]

15 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Bryce is 11-15 in games of two scores or less.

He's 1-13 in games with score differentials beyond 15.

He may be clutch but he's also lost plenty of one and two scores games.

But if he’s not the reason for the GWDs, the inverse would also apply in that he’s not the reason for those losses. Or are we just cherry-picking the negatives from the positives?

[Joe Bear]

I’ve made no secret that I want a QB competition next year but good lord guys, don’t trip over yourselves running to the computer to discredit every positive thing about the quarterback of your favorite team 

[Jon Snow]

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Many have argued this.  I say change the definition of GWDs so it's harder to earn.  My point is that he gets credit for the GWD just like every other QB in the league.  Based on the matrix he has 4. 

Stats are stats.  You can manipulate stats to prove just about anything.  Doesn't mean it's accurate.

 

Aren't they applying the same standard for every qb? If so, then what's the beef?

[Khyber53]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Aren't they applying the same standard for every qb? If so, then what's the beef?

There's a fair argument here.

And often, it isn't the QB that's at fault for the team being behind in the fourth quarter. Defenses play into it heavily. Heck, the opposing team plays into it very heavily, both in their offensive output and possibly their defense just petering out. 

It's an odd stat. Much like Atlanta having the #1 passing defense going into this past week's game. They had it greatly because teams were running so consistently against their defense that you didn't have to pass to beat them... at all. 

They knew going into Sunday that the Panthers would lean heavily on Rico and Chuba again, so they overplayed that aspect, again and again. And Bryce burned them badly. Epically. And by the time they and we had adjusted, momentum was turning against them.

Stats are just stats, they rarely tell the whole story truthfully. Nuance is the story, every time.

[strato]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Aren't they applying the same standard for every qb? If so, then what's the beef?

Yes they are. Everyone gets awarded the GWD based on the same standards. The qualifiers  

My beef is it just isn’t a good stat because the qualifiers are all over the place. 
You can get a GWD for essentially going three and out and the bringing on the kicker, at 11:58 in the 4th quarter.  
And it counts the same as you got the ball on your 25 with 2:18 left in the game and one timeout and orchestrated a perfect two minute drill ending in a TD or a kick as the clock ticked off the last seconds. 
 

Those are just not the same. They shouldn’t count the same. IMO.

And the only way to know that a guy’s GWD was the classic 2 minute drill for a last second kick, or if he came in after a turnover and handed it off a couple of times and the kicker came on with 12 minutes to go, and made the final margin, is to look at the drive charts.  

 

[kungfoodude]

18 hours ago, TN05 said:

PFR says we had 7 game winning drives. We lost 5 games on top of this. We were in a trailing or losing situation in the 4th in all but 4 games that year.

I’ve found Bryce to be extremely underwhelming this year, outside of the last game. But the idea game winning drives don’t count because that means we nearly lost is silly. Just take the Ws an hope we get more of yesterday 

Game 1(Jags): Trailed in 4th, comeback victory.

Game 2(Tampa): Never trailed.

Game 3(Atlanta): Never trailed.

Game 4(New Orleans): Never trailed.

Game 5(Indy): Led in the 4th, allowed them to tie and we won in OT.

Game 6(Tennessee): Trailed entire game. Lost.

Game 7(New Orleans): Trailed entering 4th, took lead, allowed them to tie to send to OT. Won in OT. Comeback victory.

Game 8(Houston): Led entering 4th quarter. Gave up 4th quarter TD to lose. 

Game 9(Tampa Bay): Led 20-7 entering 4th. Gave up 17 straight points in 4th. Rallied for a GW FG. Comeback victory.

Game 10(Washington): Tie at 10 entering 4th. Scored to go up 13-10, allowed a Redskins TD to go down 17-13. Scored the next drive. Comeback victory.

Game 11(Dallas): Trailed entire game. Lost.

Game 12(Philadelphia): Trailed after first drive. Lost.

Game 13(Atlanta): Led in 4th quarter, gave up tying TD. Lost in OT.

Game 14(Arizona): Trailed entering 4th, scored to take lead, allowed tying score and then drove for GW FG.

Game 15(Detroit): Never trailed.

Game 16(New York Giants): Never trailed.

 

So in 9 total games were we ever behind in the 4th quarter.

Of those:

Entered 4th Leading: 2 Games(1-1)

Entered 4th Trailing: 6 Games(3-3)

4th Tied: 1 Game(1-0)

 

[frankw]

At some point people just need to take a breath and just let it play out. We have two upcoming games against the 49ers and the Rams that will tell us plenty. Bryce Young will either sustain this level of play or he will revert to the same old same old. All we can do is wait and see.

[PNW_PantherMan]

5 minutes ago, strato said:

Yes they are. Everyone gets awarded the GWD based on the same standards. The qualifiers  

My beef is it just isn’t a good stat because the qualifiers are all over the place. 
You can get a GWD for essentially going three and out and the bringing on the kicker, at 11:58 in the 4th quarter.  
And it counts the same as you got the ball on your 25 with 2:18 left in the game and one timeout and orchestrated a perfect two minute drill ending in a TD or a kick as the clock ticked off the last seconds. 
 

Those are just not the same. They shouldn’t count the same. IMO.

And the only way to know that a guy’s GWD was the classic 2 minute drill for a last second kick, or if he came in after a turnover and handed it off a couple of times and the kicker came on with 12 minutes to go, and made the final margin, is to look at the drive charts.  

 

Just because a stat is equally applied doesn't mean it's useful.  If wins are not a QB stat then GWD is not a QB stat.

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, strato said:

Yes they are. Everyone gets awarded the GWD based on the same standards. The qualifiers  

My beef is it just isn’t a good stat because the qualifiers are all over the place. 
You can get a GWD for essentially going three and out and the bringing on the kicker, at 11:58 in the 4th quarter.  
And it counts the same as you got the ball on your 25 with 2:18 left in the game and one timeout and orchestrated a perfect two minute drill ending in a TD or a kick as the clock ticked off the last seconds. 
 

Those are just not the same. They shouldn’t count the same. IMO.

And the only way to know that a guy’s GWD was the classic 2 minute drill for a last second kick, or if he came in after a turnover and handed it off a couple of times and the kicker came on with 12 minutes to go, and made the final margin, is to look at the drive charts.  

 

You are talking about purely last possession? That would be an extremely small amount and likely almost be exclusively GW FG drives. Outside the EXTREMELY rare walk off TD,  most of these scenarios involve the other team getting the ball back in some fashion(kickoff, last couple of plays, etc).

 

[strato]

25 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Just because a stat is equally applied doesn'ty for  mean it's useful.  If wins are not a QB stat then GWD is not a QB stat.

That is my argument on this. It is so broadly defined that it doesn’t tell you who the dawgs are and who got a participation trophy for moving the ball 7 yards into FG range by handing it off to your RB.  
Okay the real dawgs get credit for that handing off too, so it is fair. Do I want to use that to measure the value of my QB”s play? To get there you have to dig deeper the stat as it is defined just isn’t a good tool IMO

Like getting garbage time stats and they count the same as those 448 yards Bryce earned in a tightly contested game the other day. They shouldn’t.  
I don’t have anything worked out that would redefine and improve the usefulness of the GWD but maybe there should be a stat for the 2 minute drill stuff, the 4 minute drill, where the QB really was challenged and responded.  

Edited 46 minutes ago by strato

[DaveThePanther2008]

48 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Aren't they applying the same standard for every qb? If so, then what's the beef?

No beef at all.  I agree with it. My point is several folks on here like to say he didn't deserve this win or that win because somebody else did all the work.

My point is, the criteria is set and if he is the QB of record when the GWD occurs he gets credit regardless of how much he had to do with it. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

6 minutes ago, strato said:

That is my argument on this. It is so broadly defined that it doesn’t tell you who the dawgs are and who got a participation trophy for moving the ball 7 yards into FG range by handing it off to your RB.  
Okay the real dawgs get credit for that handing off too, so it is fair. Do I want to use that to measure the value of my QB”s play? To get there you have to dig deeper the stat as it is defined just isn’t a good tool IMO

Like getting garbage time stats and they count the same as those 448 yards Bryce earned in a tightly contested game the other day. They shouldn’t.  
I don’t have anything worked out that would redefine and improve the usefulness of the GWD but maybe there should be a stat for the 2 minute drill stuff, the 4 minute drill, where the QB really was challenged and responded.  

At a certain point, you have to let your eyes see what's happening on the field.  The nuance of everything going on in a football game is never going to be captured by analytical statistics.  Too much information becomes noise.  But we're interested in the signal.

Edited 41 minutes ago by PNW_PantherMan