At this point its Sadiq or bust... A

[*FreeFua*]

4 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I can agree that he's not the same traditional tight end as say Warren but he's not that different from Loveland in a guy that plays more like a slot HVAC type row I don't think they're that much there He's probably not as good a route runner but with all that said none of them are the athlete that he is so it's kind of a watch there can I save for a fact that he's going to elite player probably not 

You're asking for a wide receiver 3 and that's kind of what this would be in a way but accept bigger and just as explosive he's faster than all the guys that you would find at this point in the draft to feel a slot need and he's a red zone weapon with size verticality and such I think he's just a bigger mismatch than those guys you name Yes your banking on potential I think he's a bigger threat to make a play after the catch just based off strength size and just dog.

I can't say I know what the Panthers look for in terms of arm length at the tight end position because we haven't drafted an elite first round tight end almost ever but if I'm looking at the way they have made their moves this offseason they drafted to where they don't have to reach it need and they've addressed most of those needs and this is one of the secondary needs that fit the draft range and if available there's a good chance that's a deep will be gone by time we pick I think you're blessed if he does fall to 19

You’re underselling Loveland imo. He’s so damn good. You can line him out wide and count on him to win 1 v 1. I don’t see that from Sadiq. Loveland is going to go over 1000 yards next season

I’m not overly asking for a WR3. It’s just one of the few directions Morgan could go in round 1. 

Let’s say Thieneman, Fano and Cooper are all on the board it’s a tough decision. I just don’t see how this team would take Sadiq over some of those guys given the way they run their offense. Our tight end room is easily bottom of the league so I can definitely see why someone would want a tight end though. At one point during the season I was on the Sadiq train as well. I just don’t think value wise for us specifically it makes sense given our team as a whole

As far as tight ends go in this draft I really like Max Klare. Very smooth mover 

 

 

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

You’re underselling Loveland imo. He’s so damn good. You can line him out wide and count on him to win 1 v 1. I don’t see that from Sadiq. Loveland is going to go over 1000 yards next season

I’m not overly asking for a WR3. It’s just one of the few directions Morgan could go in round 1. 

Let’s say Thieneman, Fano and Cooper are all on the board it’s a tough decision. I just don’t see how this team would take Sadiq over some of those guys given the way they run their offense. Our tight end room is easily bottom of the league so I can definitely see why someone would want a tight end though. At one point during the season I was on the Sadiq train as well. I just don’t think value wise for us specifically it makes sense given our team as a whole

As far as tight ends go in this draft I really like Max Klare. Very smooth mover 

 

 

I think you're under selling Sadiq. They are two different players in terms of how they win. Loveland is 2 inches taller maybe 5-6 pounds heavier. Comparing his speed to sadiq.. well your comparing a 4.7 guy to a 4.3 guy

I'm seeing a guy that can take a bubble screen from the tight end position and turn it into a house call. I'm not saying the guy is a certified home run pick but I don't think there's really a president's for a comparison for this kind of athlete. It's easy to say this doesn't look like Warren or Loveland because we haven't seen guys that fit this profile The closest you might be able to get is Vernon Davis. 

He's not as sure far as those guys were but at 19 I think almost everybody is going to have some warts and he's a lottery ticket of could be top 10 in the draft player or could fail I am more of a risk taker I think he fits the athletic profile that could be a homerun, like I said he's almost 40 lb bigger than Cooper and like 4-5 in taller than Cooper so and he's faster. So whatever you think Cooper gives you I think he does that and more. If you want to go with one of the office alignment I can understand that as well but for value as a receiving threat I don't think there's a bigger value at number 19.

[micnificent28]

Personally I think he's a nightmare to cover I think linebackers generally aren't fast enough to keep up with him in coverage and cornerbacks don't have the strength to tackle him one-on-one in physically bring them down which would normally lead to a broken tackle or a nasty stiff arm or just bully ball play sure you could find a receiver with comparable speed like Cooper but he's faster than Cooper sure you can find a wide receiver that is the same size but he's probably More powerful than them and a better blocker. 

The size speed athleticism package that he is in is completely unique it's easier to say I'd rather have just a big blocker because we've never seen this type of profile before I'm a risk taker I think you would be God blessed if this was there at 19 I think if you can get a guy that's a tight end who immediately becomes the fastest guy on your offense and at the same time that third wide receiver that can stretch and burn defenses over the top that's the perfect what the Panthers need type weapon.

[strato]

2 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I have no retort for that. I am not 100% sold on Bryce. By my metric's at the position he doesn't meet my threshold size speed arm. But he's here now and he was a number 1 overall pick. I will bank on his talent vs say ty Simpson?

You don’t need a retort for everything. Which, I am still trying to learn how to put that into practice. 
 

That is sort of hard for me to say as I haven’t even seen Simpson play more than a few series and that at a man cave thing we were shooting pool. The game was on.  
 

And I am generally biased, I admit it, against Alabama QBs post Joe Namath.  Probably forgetting a couple of good ones over the years but generally they underperform in the NFL. 
 

But Simpson could be better than Bryce when it comes down to it. A few guys drafted after Bryce, have been. Right now I would say Bryce is better than a moderately talented rookie, for a single season but I can’t see the future especially not having really watched Simpson. 
All I know about Bryce is he has played to a good NFL level a handful of times a couple of years running. So he has that in the bank. But he doesn’t make enough deposits to pay the bills.  There was no stacking going on. Wins, yardage, TD passes, points, impressive performances. It is the big leagues. People that really shine do stuff he has not done.

 

[tukafan21]

13 hours ago, Car123 said:

Look at all the successful teams in recent years. Most of them have great tight ends.

Have they though?

I'll give you KC with Kelce, but c'mon, they weren't winning those SB's because they had a great TE, it was a combination of Mahomes and some great defenses.  Will also give you the 49ers and Ravens with Kittle and Andrews, but even then, both have missed time with injuries the last few years.

After those 3 teams, the best teams of the last 2-3 years have not had elite TEs

The Eagles had Goedert, he's good, not great.

The Bills have also had good but not great TE's

The Rams have had average TEs and still consistently run 2 and 3 TE sets with them and still win.

The Bucs have been winning the South without a great TE

The Lions' Laporta is more a name than a highly productive TE.

The Texans have had a serviceable TE in Shultz, but nothing too amazing.

Some of the best TE's in the league the last few years have been on some of the worst teams.  McBride, Bowers, Warren, Njoku, even Pitts this past year.

A true elite TE is absolutely a weapon in today's game, but I think the best teams use that money elsewhere and find serviceable TE play, usually through a committee where each TE brings something else to the table.

Edited 1 hour ago by tukafan21

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

You already addressed tackle. Walker is 26.. and by most metrics the best tackle available. He's about the same age as ickey. As far as improving the talent at QB you and everyone else would like to do that it just isn't possible this year. There is no challenging Bryce in this year's draft out side Mendoza so that's just not feasible.

Walker is a 1 year signing. Stone is a 1 year. BC is coming back from an Achilles injury. Typically takes 2 years to get back to full health, but he's also better inside than at tackle. Yosh retired. Moton will have 1 year remaining on his contract and he's already admitted knee issues. That's banking on a whole lot of nothing at the end of this upcoming season. 

As far as challenging Bryce, a challenge can come from any round. It's about finding the right QB with the physical and mental talent that fits the system. Wilson, Dak, Purdy, Brady. Just a few examples of non 1st round QBs that were able to challenge the starters. 

Another QB doesn't necessarily have to beat out Bryce, but we should be looking for another starting caliber QB. It's not like Bryce has set the bar so high it's unattainable. The bar is low.

The goal is playoffs. Do we throw away a season if Bryce gets hurt, because KP is taking us nowhere. Dan has made some great signings this FA period, I give him that. But replacing Dalton with KP is not aggressively improving our QB room. It's at best a lateral move.

This is all about getting better. But this is yet another move that makes it even less conspiracy theory, and more reality, that Bryce is being protected from any real adversity in our QB room.