Round 1: The Carolina Panthers select OT Monroe Freeling (Georgia)

[electro's horse]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

RIGHT NOW?  He has work to do.  If anyone would like to explain how any other lineman in this draft has a higher ceiling, I am all ears.

I remember when we drafted Gross.  He was not ready for LT, so we played him at RT.  I recall Peppers eating him alive in practices.  I recall thinking, "We drafted a bust from Utah."  

He too had a high ceiling.  First rounders get five year deals (in theory)  If years 2-5 are elite as opposed to years 1-5 being average, give me the slow rookie season.  

If you are relying on rookies to take you to the promise land, you ain't going to the promise land.  I see Freeling playing a lot this year, one way or another.

Gross was literally a starting tackle on a Super Bowl team and they wouldn’t have been there without him. You’d have had Matt willig or something. He was a swing tackle coming out and switched between right and left multiple times in his career. He was drafted to play right tackle because Todd Steussie was still playing well when he wasn’t getting personal fouls. Gross was an absolute technician when he came out of school, which is the reason he was so good for so long even though he didn’t have the best RAAS score or whatever. And Julius peppers is literally one of the best players of all time. Of course gross was going to struggle against him in camp. 

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

Granted this is a Very Hot Take but this is the reaction from Reddit’s UGA board

We’re used to having 3-4 first round picks, sometimes more, especially on defense. If Freeling truly was our best player on the roster, which clearly the NFL feels is the case. I think it makes sense we only got as far as we did. And I think maybe even shows how good of a coaching job Kirby Smart and his staff did last year. He turned a team where the best player on the field was a turnstile and turned them into conference champions and had an 11 win regular season. That’s very difficult to do this day and age.

We can hope this turns out well.  I started a few threads that pointed out the shortcomings of the OTs at the top of the draft.  If the issue is "can he start right now?"  this is a bad pick.  If the question is, "how high is this 21-year-old's ceiling?"  then we got the best OT.  I read that people were calling it a strong OT draft in round 1--I did not see it that way.  He needs to get stronger and develop his technique.  He seems coachable. I am glad we got Freeling instead of another WR with bad hands or Sadiq.

[MechaZain]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

In theory year three of a head coach with a qb still essentially on his rookie deal the year after making the playoffs is when a team is poised from a talent and financial position to make a big run.

Obviously, Canales runs the weakest offense in the nfl, Bryce is Bryce, and their playoff was the reward for their lose and get in game

Plus he’s not even starting unless something unforeseen happens

Draft lineman all day, draft UGA players all day, it’s fine. He’ll be a good nfl player. But this team needed an impact day one first round nfl defensive starter, and they got a developmental tackle. 

Operating like we're anywhere near making a run right now would be delusional. I'm glad that Morgan isn't mortgaging the team's future to try to prop up Canales and Young.

He's a prototypical LT who just needs to get coached up. He's long and athletic. If all else fails he's a fine RT. I feel like I'm being gaslit about the state of the offensive line. If they didn't address it now it could be a crisis in a years time.

[csx]

 

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

We can hope this turns out well.  I started a few threads that pointed out the shortcomings of the OTs at the top of the draft.  If the issue is "can he start right now?"  this is a bad pick.  If the question is, "how high is this 21-year-old's ceiling?"  then we got the best OT.  I read that people were calling it a strong OT draft in round 1--I did not see it that way.  He needs to get stronger and develop his technique.  He seems coachable. I am glad we got Freeling instead of another WR with bad hands or Sadiq.

Obviously the pros have a different take considering that as a group they all went higher than you thought.  Has it occurred to you that you arent a scout?

Edited April 24 by csx

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

We can hope this turns out well.  I started a few threads that pointed out the shortcomings of the OTs at the top of the draft.  If the issue is "can he start right now?"  this is a bad pick.  If the question is, "how high is this 21-year-old's ceiling?"  then we got the best OT.  I read that people were calling it a strong OT draft in round 1--I did not see it that way.  He needs to get stronger and develop his technique.  He seems coachable. I am glad we got Freeling instead of another WR with bad hands or Sadiq.

I dunno I just generally think first rounders need to start, with the exception of qb. Theres plenty of rounds in the draft to take developmental tackles and hope they pan out. We literally just signed one in free agency.

obviously no sane person wanted another wide receiver or sadiq. 

[frankw]

18 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

Sir. Are you implying that Morgan knows about building a professional football team, while most people here can barely assemble a decent fantasy football roster?

He's had some stumbles but also some strides. All that matters is learning and adapting. TBD.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

Gross was literally a starting tackle on a Super Bowl team and they wouldn’t have been there without him. You’d have had Matt willig or something. He was a swing tackle coming out and switched between right and left multiple times in his career. He was drafted to play right tackle because Todd Steussie was still playing well when he wasn’t getting personal fouls. Gross was an absolute technician when he came out of school, which is the reason he was so good for so long even though he didn’t have the best RAAS score or whatever. And Julius peppers is literally one of the best players of all time. Of course gross was going to struggle against him in camp. 

Gross was 23 when he was a rookie.  How good was he at 21?  I get your argument--until we see him on the field...but I am coming from the perspective of his ceiling.  Gross was great, but he did not have the physical gifts Freeling has.  The draft is about potential and upside.  Considering their ages, size, physical attributes, and athleticism, do you think Freeling has the potential to be as good or better than Gross?  

[electro's horse]

8 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

Operating like we're anywhere near making a run right now would be delusional. I'm glad that Morgan isn't mortgaging the team's future to try to prop up Canales and Young.

Morgan also gave a very questionable, risky contract to a pass rush specialist which is what you do when you think you’re a player away. Improve the team sure but that and a developmental offensive tackle doesn’t make sense to me.

now if we’re hoping we’re building the team and line for the next qb after Bryce puts out another top 26 performance this year then yeah I’ll be less mad but Morgan hasn’t struck me as some Machiavellian operator yet. 

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Gross was 23 when he was a rookie.  How good was he at 21?  I get your argument--until we see him on the field...but I am coming from the perspective of his ceiling.  Gross was great, but he did not have the physical gifts Freeling has.  The draft is about potential and upside.  Considering their ages, size, physical attributes, and athleticism, do you think Freeling has the potential to be as good or better than Gross?  

They’re totally different players and played in completely different offenses. Remember Meyer wasn’t at Utah when gross was there. They only won five games his last year. Gross just blew everyone away with his technique once the coaches got their hands on him and was a draft riser. I remember everyone saying the panthers needed a tackle but he was something of a surprise pick back then.

this just seems like he’s big and huge and played at UGA which again is FINE but it doesn’t help you win now.

also true story gross was in Charlotte the day of the draft. By chance my family went out to PF Chang’s at Phillips place that night and he was there with his family. I remember thinking we just drafted him and he looked really dorky. 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, csx said:

 

Obviously the pros have a different take considering that as a group they all went higher than you thought.  Has it occurred to you that you arent a scout?

I am not really interested in engaging with people with MHS issues here.  Obviously, I never claimed to be a scout--just a fan with opinions--this is my hobby--you, however, are perhaps too emotionally involved in this. By the way, the pros are right just over 50% of the time in the first round.  Is 50% your validating standard?

[carpanfan96]

3 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Then why did he last till 19? 

Really raw, needs refinement, hasn't played a ton at oline, only bulked up recently and his combine drills were pretty awful. 

[Swaggasaurus]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I am not really interested in engaging with people with MHS issues here.  Obviously, I never claimed to be a scout--just a fan with opinions--this is my hobby--you, however, are perhaps too emotionally involved in this. By the way, the pros are right just over 50% of the time in the first round.  Is 50% your validating standard?

You did be talking a lot about the OT. But you did always leave the door cracked for Proctor or Freeling. I had those guys as my favorites for our pick, but you did leave the door open and provided good in depth content on the OT.

[CPF4LIFE]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

Really raw, needs refinement, hasn't played a ton at oline, only bulked up recently and his combine drills were pretty awful. 

So almost the complete opposite of some other responses i have seen.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

They’re totally different players and played in completely different offenses. Remember Meyer wasn’t at Utah when gross was there. They only won five games his last year. Gross just blew everyone away with his technique once the coaches got their hands on him and was a draft riser. I remember everyone saying the panthers needed a tackle but he was something of a surprise pick back then.

this just seems like he’s big and huge and played at UGA which again is FINE but it doesn’t help you win now.

also true story gross was in Charlotte the day of the draft. By chance my family went out to PF Chang’s at Phillips place that night and he was there with his family. I remember thinking we just drafted him and he looked really dorky. 

You have good points, but the key point you make is "win now."  I am looking at our T situation and Freeling's ceiling.  GMs are wrong nearly half the time in the first round.  Nobody knows, but I said the pick was a long-term pick vs. a "win now"  the Gross comparision was just an example and I was not intending to defend a hypothetical raw player with upside against a proven Panther legend--the point was, nobody comes in as a complete package.  Gross was a super bowl OT, and so was Remmers--so we could disagree about semantics all day--I see your point and understand that there are risks with every pick--at 19, the true first rounders were gone compared to others.  I like his upside.  Higher than Gross's upside at the same age--in my view.